Intimidation vs. Leadership

[jetman1287]

I think leadership is definitely the way to go. Maybe some corps do follow the intimidation route, but it depends who you hear it from.

I've heard all sorts of fear stories about auditioning and camp and so on, and it seems to be a bunch of people looking to make themselves feel better. They aren't THAT difficult or intimidating.

For example -

I went to a high-level HS band. For years I kept hearing from people how difficult it was to make a top DCI corps. I went to an audition camp for a highly respected corps and realized it wasn't as intimidating as I had been told (except for percussion of course, lol)...not only that, but there weren't "thousands" or people auditioning either...more about 200...this isn't about training techniques but it gives you an idea of the exaggeration that goes on by former corps members.

[The Other Mike]

you sound like an ###.

The's MISTER ### to you .

[CoatsContraDad]

lol

you wanted to let me know, IN PRIVATE, that you didn't appreciate my methods... but then posted the same thing you pm'ed me? bwahahaha

anyway, you're right, i shouldn't have attacked him without laying out my reasoning in the same post. but now i have layed out my reasoning, so i won't be personally removing the post. seems kind of pointless to make the distinction, to me.

attacks are ok if you explain why you're making the attack? or are attacks never ok? what about the name calling and bullying you've done to me? should i report you? or is it justified based on the reaction that you had? is my attack justified because that's how i truly felt and not because i was simply stirring the pot?

either some attacks are ok because they are an individual's honest response and my post doesn't warrant deletion (and mine wasn't particularly aggressive... it was actually fairly understated). or, as you seem to believe, attacks are never ok, and my first post as well as most of your last two should be deleted, and you could safely be called a hypocrite, and i don't think you'd like that very much given the overstated idealism you've expressed so far.

Oh please. All I'm saying is I don't feel there's a need to call anybody anything that requires asterisks. I just don't feel it's appropriate to cuss a man online if you wouldn't cuss him to his face. Maybe you would, I don't know.

Disagreeing with someone is not a problem, brother, it's part of life. Disagreements are not attacks; in my book, cussin' someone is. That's where you and I have our problem.

Like I said before, you're entitled, you're not breaking any laws or doing yourself or anyone else any harm. It's just...distasteful. That's my opinion.

And you're right about the PM/public business--lame on my part. I obviously overreacted. That makes me an ###.

Edited July 6, 2008 by CoatsContraDad

[The Other Mike]

are you freaking kidding me?

first of all, stow the self righteousness. seriously, this post plus the pm telling me i'm not welcome is ####### obnoxious. the last time i dealt with behavior like that i was in middle school or something. learn to operate with people you don't agree with, contra dad.

second, did you even read that guy's post? he "puts his kids on ignore," which i assume means that he stops responding to them (great teaching!) and not that he blocks their instant messages. he attempts to have his students removed from school (because that kind of action shouldn't just be for kids who beat the hell out of others on a daily basis, mirite?). he promotes his section leaders tricking and guilt tripping the newer kids instead of approaching the students himself (because manipulating your students is what a teaching degree is all about!). i can only assume he takes cigarette breaks in the middle of practice based on his last sentence.

let me know if i'm out of line here (and preferably with something more than "ya u suck gtfo of my thred nub"), but i'm not just trying to be rude. that's actually kind of appalling.

Actually, I'm the last stop for many kids on the list to be kicked out of school. The coaches won't tolerate them yet I feel the need to give every kid a chance. I get called in several times a year by the administration to see if I will take on special cases because of the way I teach.

By the way, my principal attends more DCI and DCA shows than I do because I'm usually spending time with the kids. I don't get to go to DCA because we have football on that Friday night. He knows and understands my methods better than anyone and yes, makes special exceptions in the way I do things.

Yes, I take smoke breaks during long practices and the kids know this. They also know, from me, how I wished I had had someone like me, teach me just how bad smoking is for you in later life. I openly preach to them about it and try to show them the ugliest side of smoking I can.

My kids also know all about my medications also. After a 69 day hospital stay in 2004 with a serious case of Guillian Barre' Syndrome, I was not supposed to live, then I'd never walk again, then they said I'd be in a nursing home the rest of my life. It was because of those kids I wanted to return to teaching within 6 months. Yes, my kids know about the 14 different types of medications I have to take just to live. Yes, the administration is tolerent when I miss a 1/2 day of school because of my illness and medications sometimes making me sleep 16-18 hours in a row, but they also appreciate the fact that when I can, I give my time to teach the preK-3rd grade general music classes.

Am I an ### ? No doubt about it, I'm the first one to admit it.

I just hope one day you have someone who dedicates their life to making you a better person.

I invite you to a rehearsal anyday so you can judge for yourself and maybe then you might decide to dedicate your life to making a difference, not a buck.

As my father once told me; "Son, you'll never have hemmorids, you're a perfect ###hole".

I've been called far worse from people better than you.

Not every situations is the perfect school with the perfect equipment and students. Anyone can teach in the good situations but few can take the bad situations and change their manner and style of teaching to meet the needs of the kids.

Sorry we disagree, but maybe someday you will come to understand.

[Kekkles]

and now i feel like a jerk because once again i assumed someone looked like an ### just because, and that there were no extenuating circumstances.

i don't know why i keep doing that.

[The Other Mike]

and now i feel like a jerk because once again i assumed someone looked like an ### just because, and that there were no extenuating circumstances.

i don't know why i keep doing that.

Welcome to the club, I'm 52 and I still have not learned.

It never fails, I'll keep myself in check 364 days of the year yet the one day I shoot from the hip..................on come the spotlights and there I am.

No harm, no foul.

If arguments on the internet are the worst things in our lives...............

[euponitone]

let me know if i'm out of line here (and preferably with something more than "ya u suck gtfo of my thred nub"), but i'm not just trying to be rude. that's actually kind of appalling.

I was going to say - you need to read a little deeper before you jump in like that. I see now that he explained himself (I knew exactly where this was going...) but if you had given things a chance instead of jumping in and assuming the worst, you may not have looked like a...well, you know.

[84BDsop]

I think leadership is definitely the way to go. Maybe some corps do follow the intimidation route, but it depends who you hear it from.

I've heard all sorts of fear stories about auditioning and camp and so on, and it seems to be a bunch of people looking to make themselves feel better. They aren't THAT difficult or intimidating.

For example -

I went to a high-level HS band. For years I kept hearing from people how difficult it was to make a top DCI corps. I went to an audition camp for a highly respected corps and realized it wasn't as intimidating as I had been told (except for percussion of course, lol)...not only that, but there weren't "thousands" or people auditioning either...more about 200...this isn't about training techniques but it gives you an idea of the exaggeration that goes on by former corps members.

I guess I was fortunate...being a TOTAL corps rookie when I went to Concord, I had no idea what I was getting myself into...I didn't psyche myself out, and I was the only person going up (no audition camps back then)

I don;t know if I could hande the audition camp stresses of today.

[AzEuph]

My last season marching with a top 6 corps was rough on me. In this corps I had my visual tech always picking on me, it honestly seemed like his goal to make me want to quit. He was gone for I believe 10 days, and within those ten days my marching improved tenfold. I was getting called out everyday and after he went on vacation I got called out maybe 2-4 times. I started sprinting to my set, I was having the most fun. I even challenged my temp. tech to find an error in one of my reps, he asked if I was challenging him and I said of course I am! That summer was very hard on me, both by members and staff. But when I started feeling great about myself I stopped getting crap from other members.

Then my tech came back and my self esteem went out the window, and my marching went back to getting called out. However, I liked the guy off of the field and everybody else seemed to like him over my temp. tech. After this tech I told my self I would never be like him, because of how miserable he made me.

Now when I teach I try to be a leader, I let my students know that anyways this sucks it is all for a cause. I always make sure my students understand my reasons, such as making them running a lap between box drills. After I switched to my new teaching style the students started to respect me more and listen to me.

[Brutus]

I think about my drum corps instructors all the time.

I joined a top twelve corps back in 1979 for two months, migrating from a smaller corps where I had marched for 3 years.

Unlike where I just came from, the instruction in this top 12 corps was hyper-macho and abusive. You know the kind of instruction I'm talking about-- the late 70's "drill sergeant" type teacher. This was when horn instructors sounded more like Mussolini than Solti. (Watching their rehearsals now, the organization has completely changed its tone for the better.) But back then, the instructors' method in this corps was to humiliate and embarrass rather than motivate and nurture. These were like October rehearsals, too, when the ranks were looking pretty thin. (Do corps have off season rehearsals anymore?) I don't mind embarrassing a kid by making him play an on-the-spot solo to let him know he hasn't been practicing enough, but for a young player like me who was dedicated, willing to learn, and just not technically proficient yet, callous, dismissive remarks from this posturing, stilted freak during our first horn rehearsals made me quit. Who needs that sh**? Go kick your dog. I'm trying to learn here.

You would think that a corps that was trying to fill out its ranks to get a full hornline would be a little more supportive or educational. And these folks didn't even know me. I think the abusive drill sergeant method of instruction worked for the "straight off-the-street" demographic, or the "scared straight" psychographic of some rough and tumble corps in the early 70's. But you would think by the time the late 70's rolled around, new methods of instruction would have taken hold. It was a pretty awful experience.

It was especially humorous to watch these Rocky-like horn instructors with their limited range of expression and narrow vocabularies try to teach the lyrical, mellifluous passages. Hahaha. Like the proverbial bull in a china shop. Really, what it boiled down to was that these instructors were trying to hold down a job like anyone else, were likely way over their heads, and fell into the common trap of sniping and humiliating teenage students into submission because they didn't have the ability to excite them with their minds or to use substantive teaching methods. Apparently he was more of an amateur than I.

Two years later, I became a solo euphonium player my high school wind ensemble where we won a regional championship. Meanwhile the corps struggled to maintain its top twelve caliber. Later, the corps adopted a more professional, collegiate approach and has since regained its stature.

Today's college musicians won't tolerate bullying. And an instructor who resorts to abusive remarks is trying to exert influence when he really has none.

Edited July 6, 2008 by Brutus