Class A 35 minimum rule

[ajlisko]

Maybe I can throw our hat in here as the unofficial (and in no way am I speaking for our corps, just presenting our situation) poster child of what can happen.

GCS, when all members are present, numbers 35 (+2DMs). One of our drummers is out this weekend because of a family commitment, so we're under numbers, and theoretically wouldn't be in competition. We're not scoring in the 20's by any means, and from all reports, we're quite entertaining. We have a few options for this weekend - we can put the backfield DM in a white jacket instead of her black one, and have her hit something in the pit as she passes by, or we can, as mentioned earlier, grab someone off the street, and have them hit something in the pit.

Our situation was kind of thrown at us unexpectedly - our 18 guard members from the winter through early summer kinda flaked out last minute, leaving us where we're at. Someone posted earlier that there are 4 corps not competing because of the 35 rule - I know of 2 others that are just squeaking by.

So, if you make it out to Hotlanta this weekend, give us a listen, and wave at my daughter in the pit during her first corps performance!

Surely, there can be a waiver issued by the Chief Judge for one member missing for one evening ... no? ... this is not something ill-contrived or malicious in its intent but, rather a bonifide waiver situation for a corps that has been at full-strength before and will be at full strength again ...

C'mon DCA (i.e. Director's with voting rights) ... what say you? ... isn't there an escalation path GCS could appeal to for this one contest? What's the sense of having a neutered performer in the pit? ... that could only hurt their overall score ... silly IMO ...

Andy "curious to see how it goes down" Lisko

[Shadow_7]

On one side of the 35 rule fence is DCA admin types having to beg show sponsors to take a corps into their show at SOME shows. The 35 rule gives them an out. On my side of the fence I've got to explain to dozens of friends and family and fans, as well as some DCI corps directors why we didn't get a score, at EVERY show. Thanks a lot.

[Sayre Kulp]

On one side of the 35 rule fence is DCA admin types having to beg show sponsors to take a corps into their show at SOME shows. The 35 rule gives them an out. On my side of the fence I've got to explain to dozens of friends and family and fans, as well as some DCI corps directors why we didn't get a score, at EVERY show. Thanks a lot.

So since you are one of the most vocal people in regards to this 35 member rule, I have to ask: what's your solution? And it can't be as simple as "just get rid of the rule," because you know that won't fly like that. I have some ideas that may make both sides feel a little more warm and fuzzy, and I plan to draft these into a proposal for next year. If you have thoughts, feel free to PM me about it. I'd like to get more opinions involved. Many minds may help us find the most equitable solution.

[Jeff Ream]

I'm sure someone will correct me, but I believe that all but two of the sanctioned DCA shows this season are sponsored by A DRUM CORPS. So I'm trying really hard to figure out just who the "show sponsors" are that we are protecting here.

For the record, I do plan to submit a well written rule change proposal regarding this rule, as I have seen and felt the effects first-hand this season. I welcome anyone who shares the feelings that this rule should be amended (or even those who support this rule) to PM me with your thoughts and concerns. I welcome both opinions because frankly, the rule was created for a reason, and though I don't agree with it, I hope that by the time we get to the rules congress, I can draft up a proposal that suits both sides of the arguement. Long shot, I know; but whining accomplishes nothing.

and i applaud you for trying.

[Jeff Ream]

Which IMO has little to do with a corps size. Especially in these parts where there is no performance fee, or travel allowance in either case. IMO it has more to do with a corps ability to do the show, than it has ever had anything to do with their size.

As far as fines, what if.... Say Skyliners toughed it out until after their last gig in July, and then bailed on all of the August shows. Circumstances beyond their control. Not only folded/inactive, but left with 12+K(4 x 3K) in DCA fines to cope with before they could make a return. Nothing against the Skyliners, I could have just as easily picked any corps on any year. What if RCR and there was a DCA circuit out in California? Good corps, good seasons, just cut a little short unexpectedly.

As far as Exhibition. I don't quite get that. The corps are there. The Judges are there. Why not give a score? It doesn't have to be anything official I suppose. But why not? The corps can still maintain their exhibition status, i.e. no performance fee, or placement(s).

About all these rules do IMO. Is make corps make tough decissions early in the season. i.e. Not to field, not to compete, NOT to go to DCA. Even though there may have been a 50/50 chance that they COULD HAVE done ALL of those things, if they weren't discouraged from doing so because of the rules.

here's a thought tho about tough decisions early in the year.......why go out and get no money to do shows under 35 members and run up bills or expenses for members?

while it does suck doing nothing, it's also cheaper

[Pit_Girl_77]

I'm sure someone will correct me, but I believe that all but two of the sanctioned DCA shows this season are sponsored by A DRUM CORPS. So I'm trying really hard to figure out just who the "show sponsors" are that we are protecting here.

For the record, I do plan to submit a well written rule change proposal regarding this rule, as I have seen and felt the effects first-hand this season. I welcome anyone who shares the feelings that this rule should be amended (or even those who support this rule) to PM me with your thoughts and concerns. I welcome both opinions because frankly, the rule was created for a reason, and though I don't agree with it, I hope that by the time we get to the rules congress, I can draft up a proposal that suits both sides of the arguement. Long shot, I know; but whining accomplishes nothing.

I am on the board that sponsers the Houston DCA show. The high price of travel prevents most corps from visiting us, so we NEED the smaller, start-ups around us to come to our show to even have a show. We ran a show with only 2 "competing" DCA corps (We have hosted DCI open-class corps and many exhibition groups the past 3 years), and GCS had only 35 members on the field this year. Those 35 members included folks that were sick, one recoving from a car wreak, two recovering from surgery, and one who will be a new mom next spring. If any of them sat out the show, we would have been under 35, only Frontier would have been "legal". (Only one corps = not sanctioned = no share points, no scores for ranking us for prelims in Rochester)

Good news...most of the folks have recovered, so we are in better health now than in July!!! Hopefully this is a very weird one-time situation, but it is very stressful!

As a show sponser, I loved to see Austin, Masquarade, WGM, and other "small" groups perform and entertain at our shows. More people does not equal a more entertaining in a corps (Alot of folks on DCP tend to whine about how boring DCI has become...) If a $pon$er is afraid of having low quality at their show, they maybe need to do a bit of research before asking a particular group to come. Down here there is no big money paying groups to come, no travel stipend, no appearence fees...if we want a corps with 30 members to come and be judged, who is it really hurting?

(I would be happy support/assist with a rule proposal change on this issue, just in case you were unsure where I stand )

Disclaimer: These are my opinions, they don't reflect GCS or our board of directors, just me listening to myself talk...

[Jeff Ream]

So since you are one of the most vocal people in regards to this 35 member rule, I have to ask: what's your solution? And it can't be as simple as "just get rid of the rule," because you know that won't fly like that. I have some ideas that may make both sides feel a little more warm and fuzzy, and I plan to draft these into a proposal for next year. If you have thoughts, feel free to PM me about it. I'd like to get more opinions involved. Many minds may help us find the most equitable solution.

thank you Sayre for asking him for solutions and not complaints. I did that once and got told off

[Pit_Girl_77]

here's a thought tho about tough decisions early in the year.......why go out and get no money to do shows under 35 members and run up bills or expenses for members?

while it does suck doing nothing, it's also cheaper

There is a cheaper option for drum corps??? Why does no one TELL me these things!?!!??!???!?

***If one ones sees you perform, they don't know you exist, they don't talk about you on DCP, and you don't get any new members to come out. It SUCKS to raise and then spend 5K to go to a show, but you have to get out there in order to grow.

...But, spend too much too fast and you have way more problems than under 35-members for a season.

[Shadow_7]

I have to ask: what's your solution?

If you must have a minimum, make it lower. Not that it helps my current corps this season, but 30 would be a lot more realistic IMO. Although still a bit high for any new corps. And not just make it lower, but include everyone on the field in a uniform. Drum Majors and Honor Guard, since it's a minimum, not a maximum. Under current rules, you could have the largest corps in DCA, and still fail to meet the minimum.

The temptation to round up 10 or more homeless folks before a show to dance a little bit off in a corner is too great in order to play by the rules. Replacing their hungry, need work signs with a big banner that reads DCA Compliance Committee of course. You know that that's gonna happen at some point down the road if things stay the way that they are. Of course at that point, it's no longer about competiting, but just being allowed to compete.

If a corps happens to fall below the minimum, don't just DQ them. You know that eventually someone's gonna get delayed due to flights. And hopefully no one dies on the field again. But it's gonna happen at some point that some corps somewhere is gonna fall below the minimum between the end of July and Labor Day. And maybe even between Prelims and Finals. And under current rules??? Get the picture yet? It's never a good thing to turn away corps, and potential fans. The current rule has the potential to turn away every single Class A competitor. Which is what 60+% of the competitive units at prelims this year? I don't see how anyone sees that as a good thing.

[Jeff Ream]

There is a cheaper option for drum corps??? Why does no one TELL me these things!?!!??!???!?

***If one ones sees you perform, they don't know you exist, they don't talk about you on DCP, and you don't get any new members to come out. It SUCKS to raise and then spend 5K to go to a show, but you have to get out there in order to grow.

...But, spend too much too fast and you have way more problems than under 35-members for a season.

so why do you need to spend the money going all over gods creation to get the word out? why cant you do a ton of gigs locally that may not involve judges to get your name out there?

plus, think about this.....in todays society, do small drum corps get the attention from the crowd? no. they eat, talk or hand out in the lot. maybe not so much at a show like prelims where the true diehards are, but at many local shows, people hang out til the big guns come on.so, even if you go, you may be ignored by half of your potential audience.

build your group in your local community, then worry about spending 5k to go to a show. odds are for the distance you travel to get that fuel bill, you wont get that many people interested in driving that distance to join you.