Class A 35 minimum rule

[Kay]

Paging Tom Peashey's memory - come in Memory................

I remember seeing something that other site a few years back whereas there was a similar discussion regarding corps size and apparently years back there was discussion about lowering the maxium corps size for Open Class corps and apparently at the DCA meeting Cos spoke out against it was some elogant reason why, without being insulting and someone (not Tom) posted what Cos said (probably paraphrasing).

I can't find it, nor was I there to remember it - but I bet Tom P was...........

Does this ring a bell Tom.......I think those words said would apply here for the "smaller" corps and why there needs to be a minimum set.

[FlamNCheez]

Has anyone considered that $3,000 over 30 members is $100 PER MEMBER? Even at 100 members, that's still $30 PER MEMBER (per fine/show). As it is many of the smaller corps don't get ANY performance fees (or share points). And it generally runs the members $100 PER MEMBER PER SHOW in dues without the fines. More if you factor in meals and lodging, and sometimes transportation if that's not part of the dues. I could understand such fines in larger groups where performance fees >= fine. But for smaller corps where every action is already in the red, that's a death nail.

What you have to understand is that a corps' actions affects more than whether it competes in a given show or not. If it's June, a particular corps has shows in August and they are sitting there with 27 people on the field, don't you think you should call it an exhibition corps for that year and try to get in shows as such? Heard of one instance where the corps wasn't prepared but pushed it to the end when they should have called it three weeks earlier. In that case, they would have been no fines.

Show sponsors rely on corps to show up and compete. If it does not, it can affect ticket sales and whether it would even be a DCA sanctioned show at all (given the 3 corps minimum). At least a month would give the show sponsors time to try to get another corps. Regardless, the fine should make corps managements seriously consider the chance of making it or not. Now, say you have 45 people and a dozen of them are in a van accident and are out for the remainder of the season. Not speaking for DCA, but I think that would certainly be reason to waive the fines.

Regarding the 35 min rule, at what point do you make the cut-off? If it is 25 people, it will still affect start up corps out there. As has been mentioned several times on DCP, smaller corps have an opportunity to compete in mini-corps.

Just my $.02!

[TomPeashey]

Kay

I remember the incident but not the exact words...

[Shadow_7]

Show sponsors rely on corps to show up and compete.

Which IMO has little to do with a corps size. Especially in these parts where there is no performance fee, or travel allowance in either case. IMO it has more to do with a corps ability to do the show, than it has ever had anything to do with their size.

As far as fines, what if.... Say Skyliners toughed it out until after their last gig in July, and then bailed on all of the August shows. Circumstances beyond their control. Not only folded/inactive, but left with 12+K(4 x 3K) in DCA fines to cope with before they could make a return. Nothing against the Skyliners, I could have just as easily picked any corps on any year. What if RCR and there was a DCA circuit out in California? Good corps, good seasons, just cut a little short unexpectedly.

As far as Exhibition. I don't quite get that. The corps are there. The Judges are there. Why not give a score? It doesn't have to be anything official I suppose. But why not? The corps can still maintain their exhibition status, i.e. no performance fee, or placement(s).

About all these rules do IMO. Is make corps make tough decissions early in the season. i.e. Not to field, not to compete, NOT to go to DCA. Even though there may have been a 50/50 chance that they COULD HAVE done ALL of those things, if they weren't discouraged from doing so because of the rules.

[jeff danchik]

What you have to understand is that a corps' actions affects more than whether it competes in a given show or not. If it's June, a particular corps has shows in August and they are sitting there with 27 people on the field, don't you think you should call it an exhibition corps for that year and try to get in shows as such? Heard of one instance where the corps wasn't prepared but pushed it to the end when they should have called it three weeks earlier. In that case, they would have been no fines.

Show sponsors rely on corps to show up and compete. If it does not, it can affect ticket sales and whether it would even be a DCA sanctioned show at all (given the 3 corps minimum). At least a month would give the show sponsors time to try to get another corps. Regardless, the fine should make corps managements seriously consider the chance of making it or not. Now, say you have 45 people and a dozen of them are in a van accident and are out for the remainder of the season. Not speaking for DCA, but I think that would certainly be reason to waive the fines.

Regarding the 35 min rule, at what point do you make the cut-off? If it is 25 people, it will still affect start up corps out there. As has been mentioned several times on DCP, smaller corps have an opportunity to compete in mini-corps.

Just my $.02!

Boy alot of this sounds familiar!

Anyhow, trying to get a group together and putting it on the field from scratch is alot of work. When your small its even tougher.Small things effect the group to a much larger degree than a larger group.Epescially attendence and finances. Internal pressures to field, alot of times can lead to vulnerbilities and wrong choices. Setting a number was a good step to make the finished product better, on the national competetive level.What was left out was what to do with the groups under 35 and over 21. Exhibition is fine but a read by judges helps the group grow.As to sponsors, if they thought a new corps 22-34 could replace an establish draw, well? Its up to them who's in their shows anyhow. The bottom line is developement, this should be the expertise of a class A co-ordinator.Getting groups from point A to championships. The ability to start an All Age program is the best solution to the the decline of the activity.But like a garden if not tended right, with guidance from an experienced gardner, it will not bear good fruit and will eventually wither and die.

Sincerely,

Apprentice Gardner

[Peggly43]

Do you really want corps to get scores in the teens. Would that help the growth of a Corps. There are Corps that take the field with 15 people and stand there and they don't have a colorguard. It would be next to impossible to get a score much over 20.

If a Corps doesn't show up then they pay the fine. All the Corps have done that for years. Yes East Coast Corps even the Cabs have paid fines when they had to back out of a show. No showing up at the last minute can kill a contest.

If you want a Drum Corps grow it, DCA corps aren't going to pay 10s of thousands to come to your city. The DCA provides all the help they can, but you need to build your organization. How can you possibly be running a Corps and not have ever asked for a rule book, it amazes me. How can you construct a show with out knowing the judging system.?

The congress is comming get the rules changed to 30, then next year the same people will want it to be 25.

PS: Will some Corps please let Shadow in their Corps picture this year.

[MikeD]

What are the names of the show sponsors that wanted this rule passed?

Bob and Ethel.

[Kansan]

What you have to understand is that a corps' actions affects more than whether it competes in a given show or not. If it's June, a particular corps has shows in August and they are sitting there with 27 people on the field, don't you think you should call it an exhibition corps for that year and try to get in shows as such? Heard of one instance where the corps wasn't prepared but pushed it to the end when they should have called it three weeks earlier. In that case, they would have been no fines.

Show sponsors rely on corps to show up and compete. If it does not, it can affect ticket sales and whether it would even be a DCA sanctioned show at all (given the 3 corps minimum). At least a month would give the show sponsors time to try to get another corps. Regardless, the fine should make corps managements seriously consider the chance of making it or not. Now, say you have 45 people and a dozen of them are in a van accident and are out for the remainder of the season. Not speaking for DCA, but I think that would certainly be reason to waive the fines.

Regarding the 35 min rule, at what point do you make the cut-off? If it is 25 people, it will still affect start up corps out there. As has been mentioned several times on DCP, smaller corps have an opportunity to compete in mini-corps.

Just my $.02!

Yes, you have valid points but there were several corps that thought they were going to be competing as Class A and had people bail on them at what I consider the last minute. I know of corps that a defections of perscussion sections which drops numbers quickly.

I know it's a balancing act and sometimes an unpredictable one. A $3,000.00 dollar fine makes me think hovering just above 35 members is an ulcer creating gamble.

[LegalEagle50]

PS: Will some Corps please let Shadow in their Corps picture this year.

[PGHPercussion]

Do you really want corps to get scores in the teens. Would that help the growth of a Corps. There are Corps that take the field with 15 people and stand there and they don't have a colorguard. It would be next to impossible to get a score much over 20.

If a Corps doesn't show up then they pay the fine. All the Corps have done that for years. Yes East Coast Corps even the Cabs have paid fines when they had to back out of a show. No showing up at the last minute can kill a contest.

If you want a Drum Corps grow it, DCA corps aren't going to pay 10s of thousands to come to your city. The DCA provides all the help they can, but you need to build your organization. How can you possibly be running a Corps and not have ever asked for a rule book, it amazes me. How can you construct a show with out knowing the judging system.?

The congress is comming get the rules changed to 30, then next year the same people will want it to be 25.

PS: Will some Corps please let Shadow in their Corps picture this year.

My understanding of why fines came to be, was because certain NE corps, were opting out of shows when a better paying performance came along.It should not be used to punish struggling corps and I don't believe it ever has been enforced this way. It can be a way to ensure groups that have struggled prove themselves, but this should be carefully applied.Now many years after enacting the rule,would it apply if a group does make a comeback and the only roadblock is implied fines. DCA would be crucified but the drumcorps community.I also believe there was an expiration on the fine, but I could be wrong.