84BDsop Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Sorry Sam wasn't trying to slam you. I never thought you were...no prob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Sorry Sam wasn't trying to slam you. I never thought you were...no prob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 So if you can't prove causality, then it's OK. I see. Why yes...if a person is making an assertion about this they should provide some sort of evidence to back it up. Go ahead and raise costs as much as you want. Who said that? When a corps folds, no one will be able to prove whether it was the Bb/F horns, or the electronics, or the expanded touring....or "bad management". Yeah, that's it. If a corps can't keep up with escalating costs, that's their own fault. The failed corps we read about here seem to be more due to internal admin issues and few kids wanting to march with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 (edited) I never thought you were...no prob. LOL, yeah re-read my post and realized it could be taken either way so figured I'd clear that up. Besides I know you like to play with sharp objects so better not get on your bad side. Just like one of our Baris who does road demolition (aka blasting) for a living. One day he went to the dentist and was told "Now I'm going to make sure you feel no pain. Because you know where I live and I know what you do at work." Edited May 6, 2009 by JimF-3rdBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 (edited) EsperanzaIncognito En Garde would have Gold Wasn't aware of Incognito's situation. Don't know much about them, as their operation is so....incognito. OK, so far we have two corps that have competed using borrowed Bb/F horns. And only one of them is still around. (Since Gold is a school district program, they already have access to horns that the district owns.) Edited May 6, 2009 by audiodb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Why yes...if a person is making an assertion about this they should provide some sort of evidence to back it up.The failed corps we read about here seem to be more due to internal admin issues and few kids wanting to march with them. Still won't admit that rising costs have anything to do with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted May 6, 2009 Author Share Posted May 6, 2009 So if you can't prove causality, then it's OK. I see. Go ahead and raise costs as much as you want. When a corps folds, no one will be able to prove whether it was the Bb/F horns, or the electronics, or the expanded touring....or "bad management". Yeah, that's it. If a corps can't keep up with escalating costs, that's their own fault.Anyone willing to acknowledge that increasing costs are a problem? There isn't much point to having a discussion....well, what "discussion" can there be if we can't even agree that escalating costs are a bad thing? Escalating costs that are a problem... 1. Fuel costs - some corps need to make a decision to perform more locally to cut their total mileage and lower their annual fuel bills. Yes, that may mean not as many "competitions," but hey...a performance is a performance. In my mind competition is secondary to providing as many performance opportunities for the young people involved in your corps. 2. Food costs - Kids need to eat and drum corps kids need to eat alot. There should NEVER be skimping on the amount of food a corps has for its members. Both of these costs are pretty much out of the control of a drum corps organization. All other costs are able to be controlled by smart and fiscally minded corps managers and Boards. Instruments, staff, uniforms, etc...they can all be controlled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted May 6, 2009 Author Share Posted May 6, 2009 Name some. The Academy...and I would point out their Jupiter Quantum brass deal as further proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Still won't admit that rising costs have anything to do with it? Where did I ever say that? I am asking for examples of corps that the poster asserted have died directly due to the existence of Bb/F horns. You seem to think it is not relevanct to ask for such evidence when the person made a direct assertion that it has happened. MHO is that, given the postings that have happened here surrounding corps that have died, that most of the time it has not been a cost issue, but other factors, corps admin internal dissension and lack of members being two of the items mentioned. Yes, rising costs in general are always an issue, World or Open class. Who EVER said they are not something to deal with? HOW a corps admin handles it's finances is part of their responsibility as the management of the corps. If you recall, the div II/III committee held off on permitting multi-key in II/III when it was passed in DCI. That was their perogative, and it was their job to do what was best for their corps...which at that time was to delay the implementation of multi-key. Nothing wrong with that...they can do the same today with any rule they decide as a group they want to delay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Where did I ever say that? I am asking for examples of corps that the poster asserted have died directly due to the existence of Bb/F horns. You seem to think it is not relevanct to ask for such evidence when the person made a direct assertion that it has happened. Well, I have to admit that no corps has been felled by the mere "existence of Bb/F horns". After all, Bb/F horns have "existed" for centuries. MHO is that, given the postings that have happened here surrounding corps that have died, that most of the time it has not been a cost issue, but other factors, corps admin internal dissension and lack of members being two of the items mentioned. Oh? What's the talk on this forum right now? Spartans and their famous financial crisis taking them out of action for '09. Magic cited a $50,000 debt in their obituary. Faltering finances were part of Esperanza's autopsy. Court of Honor (and their director) lost their shirts when financial sponsors fell through. Americanos - don't get Tom Brace started on their finances. Southwind is off the field exclusively due to finances - yes, they're not dead, but the point is that I find it hard to believe you could have missed all this. And those are just a few examples that come to mind readily.... Yes, rising costs in general are always an issue, World or Open class. At last, something we agree on. Now, add to that the cost increases associated with Bb/F horns, and you can see how one might attribute the continuing failures of some corps, in part, to Bb/F horns. Of course, this is the part you will debate....but at least you should have no more need to act mystified at the concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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