MikeD Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Anyone got an idea how easy it is for corps to sell the used horns? And what kind of a savings is it for someone to by a used corps horn instead of used (like price is usually half, etc).Just hard for me to get the idea that there is that big of a market for a couple hundred used horns every year. Do schools actually buy that much used equipment instead of having students bring their own. I know my college band had it's own horns but they were bought new and maintained/repaired so they lasted quite a while. There are 25K+ high schools throughout the country, plus all of the colleges. You see ads from corps all the time at the end of the season when they want to sell their horns. So the market is large...how many purchase horns I just do not know...maybe a contact at a corps who has sold them could answer that. Not having personally been in the market, I don't know the answer to how much savings there are, but if there was no savings, or very little, I don't see why a band would want to purchase the used horns over new ones. As for bringing their own horns that applies primarily...almost exclusively... to trumpets in the bands I have been involved with over the years. Mellis, baris, euphs, tubas...these are usually school-purchased horns. I did see one band last fall at USSBA National Champs that had purchased an entire set of used horns from a corps, includnig trumpets, to give the band a consistent look from top to bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 (edited) There are 25K+ high schools throughout the country, plus all of the colleges. You see ads from corps all the time at the end of the season when they want to sell their horns. So the market is large...how many purchase horns I just do not know...maybe a contact at a corps who has sold them could answer that. But the market isn't 25K HS plus colleges. In the past I've seen all the schools that exist as possible customers and that ain't true. That's posts from other DCPers, not just picking on this one. Not having personally been in the market, I don't know the answer to how much savings there are, but if there was no savings, or very little, I don't see why a band would want to purchase the used horns over new ones.As for bringing their own horns that applies primarily...almost exclusively... to trumpets in the bands I have been involved with over the years. Mellis, baris, euphs, tubas...these are usually school-purchased horns. At least you have been involved in bands, I don't have a clue myself. And my *gag* 35th HS reunion is next year so my info is kinda old. I did see one band last fall at USSBA National Champs that had purchased an entire set of used horns from a corps, includnig trumpets, to give the band a consistent look from top to bottom. Hmmm, guessing good band parent organization vice taxes. Wonder how long those horns last before the band needs to start replacing. Edited May 7, 2009 by JimF-3rdBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Wonder how long those horns last before the band needs to start replacing. If it was the average high schooler here in LaLaLand....about three weeks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 If it was the average high schooler here in LaLaLand....about three weeks! LMAO, in college the director had of week of teaching his style of drill. One funky bit he did was to have every other person do a 180 degree turn in a different direction while playing so we'd get the feel for it. Great idea until we started and realized the trombones were never told how to avoid each other slides. That day we found out how many of us could think for ourselves (we were the ones without damaged slides). Also kinda unrelated to this conversation is what I read from a few posters when they bought some Gs from a non-top 12 DCI corps a few years ago. Term "held together with chrome colored duct tape" comes to mind. Have to wonder the condition of even 2 year horns after a tour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 But the market isn't 25K HS plus colleges. In the past I've seen all the schools that exist as possible customers and that ain't true. That's posts from other DCPers, not just picking on this one. Well, it IS the total market, IMO. Doesn't mean that every school will make a purchase, but just about all of them would be able to if they wanted one of the corps instruments for sale. We may be thinking of the term 'market' in different ways. Hmmm, guessing good band parent organization vice taxes. Wonder how long those horns last before the band needs to start replacing. We are using Yamaha marching tubas in the band I teach that were not new when my son played one in 95, 96 and 97 (he played trumpet his freshman year, 1994). I have no idea when they were purchased, but they are at least 15 years old....a couple might be close to 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Well, it IS the total market, IMO. Doesn't mean that every school will make a purchase, but just about all of them would be able to if they wanted one of the corps instruments for sale. We may be thinking of the term 'market' in different ways. Looking at it in different ways we can agree on. My market definition is MBs that buy their own equipment. Being from ye olden days when HS MBs provided percussion and tubas only, would be interesting to see the numbers of who does buy. And what instruments are bought. Excuse me percussion and Sousaphones only... There were a few marching tubas but didn't really start appearing until the 80s from what I could tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOSMarcher Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 This goes to something else I said earlier...and I have seen this sort of idea before in other threads over time...the concern seems more for helping the DCA corps...which IMO shouldn't be a factor for the DCI Open corps at all. The benefit to the Open corps seems to be an afterthought...while IMO it should be the main focus of such an effort. Anytime an idea saves money... and therefore keeps corps from folding is a benefit. I am not saying that if they joined DCA that would happen, but I suppose with a revised tour, it could work and keep a corps from dissolving. There are several Open Class corps in DCA that are at the level of DCI Open Class. Granted they are using musicians and performers that have already been trained (for the most part), but that doesn't mean that a DCI Open Class corps couldn't be successful in DCA Open or A Class. I say A Class only because in an effort to keep a group performing at a high level, with less time, a corps might opt to reduce the members in an effort to raise the talent level throughout the corps... just speculating. Like I said, many things would have to change, but running a corps on the weekends and still being able to offer them a championship experience is certainly better than seeing a corps leave the activity. I think if DCA had an influx of corps joining their circuit, they would hire the necessary staff to accomodate them. Its just good business. ... my answer, however, is that DCI will not get rid of Open Class unless the corps get less than 5. It is certainly possible that DCI would expand World Class to include the Open Class corps if it was not sound financially to keep a small number of corps around... in a small class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Looking at it in different ways we can agree on. My market definition is MBs that buy their own equipment. Being from ye olden days when HS MBs provided percussion and tubas only, would be interesting to see the numbers of who does buy. And what instruments are bought. Excuse me percussion and Sousaphones only... There were a few marching tubas but didn't really start appearing until the 80s from what I could tell. Grossmont HS in San Diego had marching tubas when I was in HS in the late 70s. They were basically a blue colored version of SCV. That was the first place I ever saw a shoulder-mounted tuba....even before I saw a contra! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Looking at it in different ways we can agree on. My market definition is MBs that buy their own equipment. Being from ye olden days when HS MBs provided percussion and tubas only, would be interesting to see the numbers of who does buy. And what instruments are bought. Excuse me percussion and Sousaphones only... There were a few marching tubas but didn't really start appearing until the 80s from what I could tell. I would expand that to include all marching brass except trumpets...baris, euphs and mellos would normally be school-owned horns, in addition to tubas. A used corps trumpet, if only a year or so old, might be a decent purchase for an individual band member in most cases, as compared to a band purchasing an entire set...the band I noted would be an exception in my experience. Our band kids normally have two trumpets, their 'good' horn for indoor and their older horn for marching band. As to marching tubas...they were around in the mid 70's...bands I taught had them at that time...76 or so. They were usually the convertible type that could be played contra-style outdoors and indoors sit-down style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Anytime an idea saves money... and therefore keeps corps from folding is a benefit. I am not saying that if they joined DCA that would happen, but I suppose with a revised tour, it could work and keep a corps from dissolving. There are several Open Class corps in DCA that are at the level of DCI Open Class. Granted they are using musicians and performers that have already been trained (for the most part), but that doesn't mean that a DCI Open Class corps couldn't be successful in DCA Open or A Class. I was responding to a specific post...one that talked about SCD and the Renegades and how this might help them... Right now, with DCI shows being done by mid July, SCD and Renegades work in a vaccum for 6 weeks...that's a difficult thing to go through if you're shooting for a finalist spot. In 04, Dream's show ended with the ballad...the ONLY time we performed the closer was at Prelims....one time. Fortunately, it went well, but I would've loved a few more shots in front of a crowd with the chart. What I see in the above...and in other threads as well...is a focus on how integrating DCI Open class would benefit DCA corps, not the DCI corps. Everything you say might be true...I am talking about how DCP posters approach this argument, from threads I have read. IMO it's not incumbent on DCI to worry about DCA in any way, shape or form, and vice versa. If the two have some areas of mutual benefit, GREAT, they should explore those and work together as much as possible....but I don't see it is the business of either to base their own business decisions on how it might help the other circuit...esp to the detriment of their own circuit. What I see wtitten are things that seem to convey this attitude..."DCI Open class corps should join in with DCA so that the DCA corps have more opportunities to perform and be evaluated." It may be that DCI Open class corps should join up with DCA, but only if there are benefits for THEM...and those tend to be glossed over here in DCP. It seems to be an "anything but DCI" mentality in some of the posts in this thread, as I also said earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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