PAYING CUSTOMERS/AUDIENCE

[aggiegecko]

Way Way too CRABBY !!!!

thats me!!! LOL

[a marching trumpet]

Well what do you suggest? You can't have your cake and eat it.

At what your charged at finals, id say DCI is eating alot of cake

[dbc03]

At what your charged at finals, id say DCI is eating alot of cake

Yep. DCI is rolling in cash

[nemesiscorps]

With regard to not performing full shows....what honestly could the corps do. Do we really expect them to dumb down what they do just so they can get 11 minutes on the field. I know back in the day the season started on memorial day and everyone played full shows.....blah blah blah, but its a different activity now, and pretending otherwise isnt doing anyone any favors. I do have a beef with corps that dont even play their whole show at competitions, for instance, some corps just wont do the closer for the first few shows. That seems like a waste to me - why not treat the audience to a standstill if you cant march it all yet. Other than that - I completely understand the situation...when you have 3-4 weeks of spring training, and it rains for more than half of them, its just not possible to get 200 pages of drill on the field. If you know of a way to teach it faster, im sure there are a number of corps would love to have you on tour right now...

Whereas I respect your views on this, I still contend that those shows are not complete by the start of the season simply because they don't have to be. Someone wrote earlier that it is the corps themselves that make the rules in this activity, therefore they have control over when the season starts, ends, etc. There is nothing stopping them from ensuring that a corps does not stand still the last 2 minutes or more of their show at the start of the season. This practice has simply been accepted.

Additionally, if you move in the circles of instructional staffs and design teams, you know that rehearsal efficiency (in terms of completing content) is not always a priority. Typical day: 1 hour to stretch, another hour of "movement," another hour to breathe, 2 hours to warm-up, another hour for visual basics, etc., etc. Certainly, all of these components are important, beneficial, and necessary. At the same time, there is an awful lot of overkill when it comes to much of this, and much of it is done in lieu of learning the show, sometimes because the drill is not yet completed; the staff is unorganized; something is not coming off the way it was originally envisioned; etc. Not too long ago (and even today), most corps dealt with all of that and still put a full show out at the season's start. It was expected, now it doesn't matter. The vast majority of corps still come prepared in June, but it seems that the higher up you move in rankings, the more latitude you're given to operate on your own time schedule.

There's a reason why corps rehearse for 12-14 hours per day today... because they can, and yes, the quality is very good. However, it's how they use their time that is of issue. As we know, the corps have the ability to learn and retain large chunks of drill in fairly short amounts of time (which is how we see changes made throughout the season). There is a famous DCI Hall of Fame member and former corps director of a very successful all-male Central-Wisconsin corps that constantly (though unsuccessfully) stressed this issue among the DCI board. His organization's goal was to always have their show done by the time the season started, and he admonished those organizations that felt it wasn't important. He never subjected his corps to 14 hour day rehearsal hours, but rather, he believed in working efficiently to achieve high levels of performance. He proved year after year that it can be done while maintaining a high standard of excellence. Unfortunately, his corps has not been the same since he left.

Bottom line, striving to complete the show is often not a priority today, because it doesn't have to be.

[audiodb]

I completely understand the situation...when you have 3-4 weeks of spring training, and it rains for more than half of them, its just not possible to get 200 pages of drill on the field.

Disagree. If you have four weeks of spring training, you ought to be able to learn the whole drill in that amount of time. I'll grant exceptions for the days of Noah's Ark, the 1980 Mt. St. Helens eruption, and breach of contract on the part of the staff.

[Jeff DeMello]

Early season. People (Customers) paying good money to see a "product" (DCI's and Drum Corps words, not mine). What should they feel is a reasonable expectation of a COMPLETE product? AND, are the people (Customers) who pay money for late season shows getting a better value? Spawned from the Crossmen's uniform thread.

Welcome to "our" world ... by "our" I mean California. We only have a few shows, and they are all early season.

[euponitone]

Whereas I respect your views on this, I still contend that those shows are not complete by the start of the season simply because they don't have to be. Someone wrote earlier that it is the corps themselves that make the rules in this activity, therefore they have control over when the season starts, ends, etc. There is nothing stopping them from ensuring that a corps does not stand still the last 2 minutes or more of their show at the start of the season. This practice has simply been accepted.

Additionally, if you move in the circles of instructional staffs and design teams, you know that rehearsal efficiency (in terms of completing content) is not always a priority. Typical day: 1 hour to stretch, another hour of "movement," another hour to breathe, 2 hours to warm-up, another hour for visual basics, etc., etc. Certainly, all of these components are important, beneficial, and necessary. At the same time, there is an awful lot of overkill when it comes to much of this, and much of it is done in lieu of learning the show, sometimes because the drill is not yet completed; the staff is unorganized; something is not coming off the way it was originally envisioned; etc. Not too long ago (and even today), most corps dealt with all of that and still put a full show out at the season's start. It was expected, now it doesn't matter. The vast majority of corps still come prepared in June, but it seems that the higher up you move in rankings, the more latitude you're given to operate on your own time schedule.

There's a reason why corps rehearse for 12-14 hours per day today... because they can, and yes, the quality is very good. However, it's how they use their time that is of issue. As we know, the corps have the ability to learn and retain large chunks of drill in fairly short amounts of time (which is how we see changes made throughout the season). There is a famous DCI Hall of Fame member and former corps director of a very successful all-male Central-Wisconsin corps that constantly (though unsuccessfully) stressed this issue among the DCI board. His organization's goal was to always have their show done by the time the season started, and he admonished those organizations that felt it wasn't important. He never subjected his corps to 14 hour day rehearsal hours, but rather, he believed in working efficiently to achieve high levels of performance. He proved year after year that it can be done while maintaining a high standard of excellence. Unfortunately, his corps has not been the same since he left.

Bottom line, striving to complete the show is often not a priority today, because it doesn't have to be.

Haha...um, wow...forgive me for saying so, but I've never heard of such a thing. Yes, i only marched in one corps, but the schedule you described is NOTHING like the one we had in spring training, and even less like the one we had on the road. It was more like 45 minutes to stretch AND run, then a 4 hour or so marching block, which was a few basics, and then a TON of drill. Sectionals were a short warmup (which got shorter as the season went on), and then immediately to the field, to put the music with the drill. Ensemble was 2 hours or so at night and involved putting everything together with all the various sections, with a run through at the end of the night. This whole "hour of movement, hour to breathe, 2 hours of basics, 2 hours to warm up" is a preposterous exaggeration, at least where I come from.

It just astounds me that you have this viewpoint - the notion that staffs are unorganized and dont plan ahead just makes me go . The focus of spring training was ALWAYS getting drill on the field in the morning, putting the music with it in the afternoon, and putting everything together at night. The only thing that ever interrupted that was learning the various extra tunes we do for encores and the cd (rocky point, parade tunes, etc...), and I'm sure we can agree that is a necessary 'evil'. Efficiency was paramount....corps like the blue devils, cadets, and cavaliers, dont win almost every year because they waste time and just rehearse for 14 hours because they can. Besides...the 14 hour thing is an exaggeration...our longest days were usually 10 hours....4 marching, 4 music, and 2 ensemble (plus or minus an hour).

[euponitone]

Disagree. If you have four weeks of spring training, you ought to be able to learn the whole drill in that amount of time. I'll grant exceptions for the days of Noah's Ark, the 1980 Mt. St. Helens eruption, and breach of contract on the part of the staff.

And I'll disagree right back. Id rather see the corps stand for 60 seconds at the end of the show, than completely screw up there schedule just to meet a non-existant deadline. And before you ask, yes, everybody has a limit - I stated mine, which was corps that dont even bother playing their closer. It all comes down to a tradeoff, and what you are willing to accept re. completion vs an acceptable level of performance. In specific situations, such as the ones I have been in before, I am more than confident that I can judge whether or not we did as much as we could, and I am pretty solid in that opinion. The only real say we have in the matter anyway is what shows we pay for, and I think the fact that ive been to shows in june every year since I aged out backs up my opinion just fine

[Triple Forte]

Certainly they aren't. If this was an occasional problem for the occasional corps, then we could assume that for situations beyond that corps control, they weren't able to get their production finished. But that doesn't seem to be the case. This has become the norm for many (if not most) corps, so it is obviously part of the game plan for the season.

It's not that they "really don't feel like it", it is more that they don't feel that it is necessary.

I agree with you. To often these days corps are coming out with unfinished shows. It is "Definitely" more common now than in the past. Most of the world class corps have practically a whole month of 'every days camp'. The corps should be able to complete a full show. And no.....I don't expect to see all the bells and whistles in June. I would much rather watch a corps perform their whole show (With drill and guard work) even if the last part of their show features basic drill and guard work. I certainly don't like it when corps skip an entire part/number from the show.

Its a while ago.....but in the five seasons I marched.....we never came out with an incomplete show....and that was in a DCA (All-age) corps

When Dan Acheson was the director of the Glassmen he himself said "When you are in the top twelve, fans expect to see a certain quality level from your corps in June"

[audiodb]

And I'll disagree right back. Id rather see the corps stand for 60 seconds at the end of the show, than completely screw up there schedule just to meet a non-existant deadline.

I'd rather see a third choice - temporary closing drill that is easy to learn, and stages the corps properly. Any movement at all gives me a better impression than standing absolutely still and confirming that your show is unfinished....but that's just my personal taste.