hornstothebox Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Its possible that their strong brass (and percussion) performance is keeping the visual scores from being even lower than the COULD be. HTTB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosski47 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I have a great deal of respect for JD Shaw and I never implied that he didn’t know what he was doing but my guess was these recent deals with Dynasty and Jupiter had a lot more to do with the entire sponsorship package than just the actual instrument performance.Heck, I like Fender guitars but I’d switch to Gibson if someone paid me to, that’d be a smart business decision. But all things equal, no endorsement deals, same price structure…I’d be on Fender hands down and that would be a musical decision decisions, decisions, decisions You're overlooking the fact that he actually helped design them. Along with Pat Sheridan. You really think those guys, working on Jupiter's big emergence project, are gonna allow subpar products to make it past even the first stages of testing? And I'm sure both the Academy and Phantom are getting them for very cheap/free, but these two guys are two of the top brass experts in DCI (and music in general), and they sure as hell aren't gonna put their hornlines on instruments that hinder them. Has anyone who has actually played the Jupiters speak to the claim that these horns might be hurting Phantom's sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkfdPRphan Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I have to single out that comment about the percussion scores. Think about that for a moment. Let's say for a second that the judges do deliberately score Phantom lower in percussion because there are others coming after them. Well, the bottom line is that the judge doesn't have to give a higher score to the corps that perform after them just because they went after Phantom. The judge awards the score higher if the corps plays better. Phantom wouldn't have gotten a 5th place in Music Ensemble, 4th in percussion or 7th in Brass if that weren't the case, because each of those placements mean they finished ahead of someone who played after them (Phantom performed in the 8th spot). BUT....after 5 or 6 more corps after Phantom, WILL the judges STILL remember (even with notes, check offs, whatever they use) that Phantom was just a little bit better than everyone that performed later. Somehow, I dont think so...... I believe, after so many years of watching drum corps, a middle rated corp (bottom 6, middle 6 - whatever, but middle of the top 18 corps) wont get a top score in any of the captions. Deliberate? Even as a Phan, I would not call it 'deliberate', I would call it the 'luck of the draw' and a 'statistical inprobablility'. What you see last sticks in your mind. When you are splitting hairs choosing the 'best' from a group of dang good percussionists, the last ones out are going to get some benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevingamin Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Maybe they should get a synthesizer to fill out the lacking middle /low brass?I doubt they’ll be getting away from these horns anytime soon, they’ll need all the free stuff they can get because a 9th place corps doesn’t get paid like a 1st place corps In the past 2 years they sold out their musical identify and sound by changing all their instrument sponsors – a drop was bound to happen They took top drums last year on Dynasty. No drop there. It's not the horns, people, pure and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty543 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Any of you that think that Jupiter horns are causing them to get lower scores... that's just funny. They picked them for a reason, and it wasn't like they arbitrarily did it either. Regiment has a younger corps this year but the teaching is still great. If judging wasn't based on comparison, then scores across the board would be strange for every corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannyboy Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 For those unfamiliar with the drum corps activity -DCI world-class has 22 corps. There are also another two dozen DCI-participating corps outside of world-class. I, too, bristled at the first post. There are many that only "think of" the World Class finals corps. So a 12th place Finals Corps is at the "bottom?" I think it has almost nothing to do with the brand of horns. Show design - visual. Not much about their show got me excited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pags Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 BUT....after 5 or 6 more corps after Phantom, WILL the judges STILL remember (even with notes, check offs, whatever they use) that Phantom was just a little bit better than everyone that performed later.Somehow, I dont think so...... I believe, after so many years of watching drum corps, a middle rated corp (bottom 6, middle 6 - whatever, but middle of the top 18 corps) wont get a top score in any of the captions. Deliberate? Even as a Phan, I would not call it 'deliberate', I would call it the 'luck of the draw' and a 'statistical inprobablility'. What you see last sticks in your mind. When you are splitting hairs choosing the 'best' from a group of dang good percussionists, the last ones out are going to get some benefits. I do think so, but only if Phantom actually plays better. The evidence? Holy Name Cadets, playing 5 spots after Phantom, got 6th in percussion. My contention here, I guess, is that Phantom doesn't have the best line out there right now. I am in agreement that the Blue Devils have the best percussion so far, followed closely by The Cavaliers. Phantom finished 0.2 behind Carolina Crown. 0.2 is not much, meaning the judges are acknowledging quality from Phantom. They're just seeing more from corps that come after them, which is one of the reasons why theose corps are performing after them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc03 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Let me guess, your a fan of Yamaha? haha I won high brass on Yamaha, so I guess so? I really don't really have much opinion on the whole brass brand wars other than at the end of the day it is the players and not the horns that get results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jthomas666 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 They won last year. They put all the pieces into place. Staff, brass manufacturer, uniforms (yes, even uniforms).....Why the heck did they change EVERYTHING? Once you have a winning formula, you change as little as possible until it's obvious your formula doesn't work. I think Jupiter has contributed against them. The evidence doesn't support your claim, unless the Jupiter horns are somehow responsible for the low visual scores.Also, you say that they changed everything, yet you only single out the horns as being responsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayfallon Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 The evidence doesn't support your claim, unless the Jupiter horns are somehow responsible for the low visual scores.Also, you say that they changed everything, yet you only single out the horns as being responsible. If you ever doubt that the brass sound can have an effect on the visual numbers, watch a video of 1975 Madison, one of the great horn lines ever put on the field, with the sound turned off, and then look at the visual numbers. Hope I don't get in trouble for saying that, but Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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