Show concepts

[JimF-LowBari]

Yeah, it's not like inflation happened or anything.

But it wasn't inflation when gas went from less than half a buck to over a buck in the space of weeks (if that long). Few stations were selling by the half gallon because the machines (in pre digital age) couldn't be set over .99/gallon. Equivilant of gas spiking to $5 a while back except the price stayed up and there was no precidence. Killed a lot of corps budgets and had a lot of people staying home from practice or looking for that weekend job.

And KK, my favorite "where the heck are we" was Bedford, PA. No one could figure out why the name sounded familiar until someone said "It's always on the weather as coldest spot in the state".

[Medeabrass]

Back when drum corp was in the business of entertaining [snip]. People around me said this would be their last show, since they did not recognize one musical piece.

Bring back the entertainment of playing loud and having regular people get excited about watching drum corp.

Ugggh...the cliche DCP thread of old school versus new...oh well, you trolled me in and I'm taking the bait.

Just a question, "back in the day" did drum corps not compete since they were in the business of "entertaining?" Obviously, if corps these days are only aiming to the judges and not the audience then they must not have cared about the competition in your "golden era."

Also, it sounds like you're saying "regular people" don't have a very wide range of music that they know. If this is the case, then wouldn't it logically follow that corps would have to play the same music over and over again so that "regular people" know what's going on? If a corps wanted to change things up a little and attempt to play something new WHILE keeping regular people in the know, then they would have to branch out into pop music to find new AND original source music. What would be average joe's response to Vanguard playing Lady Gaga's "Disco Stick?" Puke I imagine.

This is a serious question, are there any pieces that have never been played on the drum corps field that you would like to hear? Can you think of one? This is what I find so disingenuous about most (not all) people with your complaint. You want them to play music that you recognize, yet you can't think of any that have never been played before. If you wanna hear the same thing over and over again, I suggest you get some of the historical DVDs...I'm dead serious!

How do you know that the people in the stadium were only parents and students? What's wrong with that? How do you know that "back in the day," most of the people in the audience had no musical background or a tie to the activity? Could it be that society ie "regular people" have passed drum corps by and not the other way around? Could it be that the crops of joe bobs that have come after you will never appreciate any kind of music produced from a wind instrument? The days of big bands topping the charts are long gone and so is the appreciation for wind instruments from the general public.

If corps followed your narrow prescription for acceptability, then I and many others never would've been introduced to music such as Belshazzar's Feast or New World Symphony or Firebird Suite or Candide. Seriously, what empirical process do you suggest corps use in order to select their music in the off season? Have gallop conduct a poll of Joe Bob double-wide to see which pieces of music he recognizes? Do we really have to go to the lowest common denominator of taste? To be fair, in and ideal world there should be balance but how do you mandate that balance? Do the judges sheets need to have a recognizability caption? Going back to the tick system isn't going to force corps to select more enjoyable music. They may slow it down for you but they're still going to make an attempt to do something original (ie play music that hasn't been performed by a DC before).

I'm sorry but you old schoolers used to boo and chastise my corps for playing American patriotic music! "Play something we know" was heard from the audience on a few occasions when we marched out for the encore. I call BS.

I do agree that some arrangers do go waaay too far out of their way to make some "recognizable" pieces almost unrecognizable and unlyrical. I for one don't like this either, but I think if you've been following the activity closely over the last 8 years or so you will see that the tide is turning back towards more lyrical and literal interpretations of the original music.

There are some things about drum corps that I don't like but I recognize that some of these things are fads and will cycle themselves through. On other occasions I've learned to expand my appreciation. Throw the baby out with the bath water if you choose to...that's fine...there will be some other band student (which you seem to have contempt for) who will take your place in the stands. I for one love this activity too much to be done with it for forever. It's like a child that's growing up, changing, and making its own decisions for itself independent of my wants and desires, but I still love it all the same.

[rmurrey74]

Ugggh...the cliche DCP thread of old school versus new...oh well, you trolled me in and I'm taking the bait.

Just a question, "back in the day" did drum corps not compete since they were in the business of "entertaining?" Obviously, if corps these days are only aiming to the judges and not the audience then they must not have cared about the competition in your "golden era."

Also, it sounds like you're saying "regular people" don't have a very wide range of music that they know. If this is the case, then wouldn't it logically follow that corps would have to play the same music over and over again so that "regular people" know what's going on? If a corps wanted to change things up a little and attempt to play something new WHILE keeping regular people in the know, then they would have to branch out into pop music to find new AND original source music. What would be average joe's response to Vanguard playing Lady Gaga's "Disco Stick?" Puke I imagine.

This is a serious question, are there any pieces that have never been played on the drum corps field that you would like to hear? Can you think of one? This is what I find so disingenuous about most (not all) people with your complaint. You want them to play music that you recognize, yet you can't think of any that have never been played before. If you wanna hear the same thing over and over again, I suggest you get some of the historical DVDs...I'm dead serious!

How do you know that the people in the stadium were only parents and students? What's wrong with that? How do you know that "back in the day," most of the people in the audience had no musical background or a tie to the activity? Could it be that society ie "regular people" have passed drum corps by and not the other way around? Could it be that the crops of joe bobs that have come after you will never appreciate any kind of music produced from a wind instrument? The days of big bands topping the charts are long gone and so is the appreciation for wind instruments from the general public.

If corps followed your narrow prescription for acceptability, then I and many others never would've been introduced to music such as Belshazzar's Feast or New World Symphony or Firebird Suite or Candide. Seriously, what empirical process do you suggest corps use in order to select their music in the off season? Have gallop conduct a poll of Joe Bob double-wide to see which pieces of music he recognizes? Do we really have to go to the lowest common denominator of taste? To be fair, in and ideal world there should be balance but how do you mandate that balance? Do the judges sheets need to have a recognizability caption? Going back to the tick system isn't going to force corps to select more enjoyable music. They may slow it down for you but they're still going to make an attempt to do something original (ie play music that hasn't been performed by a DC before).

I'm sorry but you old schoolers used to boo and chastise my corps for playing American patriotic music! "Play something we know" was heard from the audience on a few occasions when we marched out for the encore. I call BS.

I do agree that some arrangers do go waaay too far out of their way to make some "recognizable" pieces almost unrecognizable and unlyrical. I for one don't like this either, but I think if you've been following the activity closely over the last 8 years or so you will see that the tide is turning back towards more lyrical and literal interpretations of the original music.

There are some things about drum corps that I don't like but I recognize that some of these things are fads and will cycle themselves through. On other occasions I've learned to expand my appreciation. Throw the baby out with the bath water if you choose to...that's fine...there will be some other band student (which you seem to have contempt for) who will take your place in the stands. I for one love this activity too much to be done with it for forever. It's like a child that's growing up, changing, and making its own decisions for itself independent of my wants and desires, but I still love it all the same.

Thank you...great post

[Feathers Up]

Ugggh...the cliche DCP thread of old school versus new...oh well, you trolled me in and I'm taking the bait.

Just a question, "back in the day" did drum corps not compete since they were in the business of "entertaining?" Obviously, if corps these days are only aiming to the judges and not the audience then they must not have cared about the competition in your "golden era."

Also, it sounds like you're saying "regular people" don't have a very wide range of music that they know. If this is the case, then wouldn't it logically follow that corps would have to play the same music over and over again so that "regular people" know what's going on? If a corps wanted to change things up a little and attempt to play something new WHILE keeping regular people in the know, then they would have to branch out into pop music to find new AND original source music. What would be average joe's response to Vanguard playing Lady Gaga's "Disco Stick?" Puke I imagine.

This is a serious question, are there any pieces that have never been played on the drum corps field that you would like to hear? Can you think of one? This is what I find so disingenuous about most (not all) people with your complaint. You want them to play music that you recognize, yet you can't think of any that have never been played before. If you wanna hear the same thing over and over again, I suggest you get some of the historical DVDs...I'm dead serious!

How do you know that the people in the stadium were only parents and students? What's wrong with that? How do you know that "back in the day," most of the people in the audience had no musical background or a tie to the activity? Could it be that society ie "regular people" have passed drum corps by and not the other way around? Could it be that the crops of joe bobs that have come after you will never appreciate any kind of music produced from a wind instrument? The days of big bands topping the charts are long gone and so is the appreciation for wind instruments from the general public.

If corps followed your narrow prescription for acceptability, then I and many others never would've been introduced to music such as Belshazzar's Feast or New World Symphony or Firebird Suite or Candide. Seriously, what empirical process do you suggest corps use in order to select their music in the off season? Have gallop conduct a poll of Joe Bob double-wide to see which pieces of music he recognizes? Do we really have to go to the lowest common denominator of taste? To be fair, in and ideal world there should be balance but how do you mandate that balance? Do the judges sheets need to have a recognizability caption? Going back to the tick system isn't going to force corps to select more enjoyable music. They may slow it down for you but they're still going to make an attempt to do something original (ie play music that hasn't been performed by a DC before).

I'm sorry but you old schoolers used to boo and chastise my corps for playing American patriotic music! "Play something we know" was heard from the audience on a few occasions when we marched out for the encore. I call BS.

I do agree that some arrangers do go waaay too far out of their way to make some "recognizable" pieces almost unrecognizable and unlyrical. I for one don't like this either, but I think if you've been following the activity closely over the last 8 years or so you will see that the tide is turning back towards more lyrical and literal interpretations of the original music.

There are some things about drum corps that I don't like but I recognize that some of these things are fads and will cycle themselves through. On other occasions I've learned to expand my appreciation. Throw the baby out with the bath water if you choose to...that's fine...there will be some other band student (which you seem to have contempt for) who will take your place in the stands. I for one love this activity too much to be done with it for forever. It's like a child that's growing up, changing, and making its own decisions for itself independent of my wants and desires, but I still love it all the same.

Yet again, I agree with you. Nice points. But I'm sad to say that I've heard the OP's complaint a lot this year myself. And the people I'm hearing it from aren't really "old school". All of them marched in the 90's actually. And for some reason they find a lot of the shows now "boring" and for various reasons. Mostly the power of the hornlines though. And some have mentioned the synth use and it's relation to brass books being more dull because of it. On those points, I do agree some some extent. Although I do find some shows still very entertaining. Again, good post.

[ScoutsCAV]

I am at the DCI show in Atlanta on Saturday and I was bored out of my mind. I've marched for years in corps from the 60's up to 2002 plus I attended music college.

To me these corps want to run faster than ever on the field , with no power, since corps back in the day with 30 horns were louder than 70 person lines today.

The music to me seems like a bunch of guys wanting to get their masters in composition. They take a melody and mix it up and twist it so that it hardly if ever resembles what they say it is suppose to be. If I want to hear west side story then play it... Next thing they will do porgy and bess, but make it a happy one, with country and symphonic overtures, with various key changes, Brilliant. Back when drum corp was in the business of entertaining (I know a bad thing) people came to shows to enjoy it and they did not have to be a middle, high or college marching student to understand it, they just came to be entertained. Most at the show were students, people who have marched or parents of kids in corps. People around me said this would be their last show, since they did not recognize one musical piece.

Bring back the entertainment of playing loud and having regular people get excited about watching drum corp.

I didn't read any post after this, so you guys know.

I'm telling you right now, your little 30 man hornlines didn't play louder than the 80 man hornline now. No way.

[BRASSO]

Ugggh...the cliche DCP thread of old school versus new...oh well, you trolled me in and I'm taking the bait.

Just a question, "back in the day" did drum corps not compete since they were in the business of "entertaining?" Obviously, if corps these days are only aiming to the judges and not the audience then they must not have cared about the competition in your "golden era."

Also, it sounds like you're saying "regular people" don't have a very wide range of music that they know. If this is the case, then wouldn't it logically follow that corps would have to play the same music over and over again so that "regular people" know what's going on? If a corps wanted to change things up a little and attempt to play something new WHILE keeping regular people in the know, then they would have to branch out into pop music to find new AND original source music. What would be average joe's response to Vanguard playing Lady Gaga's "Disco Stick?" Puke I imagine.

This is a serious question, are there any pieces that have never been played on the drum corps field that you would like to hear? Can you think of one? This is what I find so disingenuous about most (not all) people with your complaint. You want them to play music that you recognize, yet you can't think of any that have never been played before. If you wanna hear the same thing over and over again, I suggest you get some of the historical DVDs...I'm dead serious!

How do you know that the people in the stadium were only parents and students? What's wrong with that? How do you know that "back in the day," most of the people in the audience had no musical background or a tie to the activity? Could it be that society ie "regular people" have passed drum corps by and not the other way around? Could it be that the crops of joe bobs that have come after you will never appreciate any kind of music produced from a wind instrument? The days of big bands topping the charts are long gone and so is the appreciation for wind instruments from the general public.

The reason there is a disconnect is that of the misconceptions some people harbor. 1) there never was " a

If corps followed your narrow prescription for acceptability, then I and many others never would've been introduced to music such as Belshazzar's Feast or New World Symphony or Firebird Suite or Candide. Seriously, what empirical process do you suggest corps use in order to select their music in the off season? Have gallop conduct a poll of Joe Bob double-wide to see which pieces of music he recognizes? Do we really have to go to the lowest common denominator of taste? To be fair, in and ideal world there should be balance but how do you mandate that balance? Do the judges sheets need to have a recognizability caption? Going back to the tick system isn't going to force corps to select more enjoyable music. They may slow it down for you but they're still going to make an attempt to do something original (ie play music that hasn't been performed by a DC before).

I'm sorry but you old schoolers used to boo and chastise my corps for playing American patriotic music! "Play something we know" was heard from the audience on a few occasions when we marched out for the encore. I call BS.

I do agree that some arrangers do go waaay too far out of their way to make some "recognizable" pieces almost unrecognizable and unlyrical. I for one don't like this either, but I think if you've been following the activity closely over the last 8 years or so you will see that the tide is turning back towards more lyrical and literal interpretations of the original music.

There are some things about drum corps that I don't like but I recognize that some of these things are fads and will cycle themselves through. On other occasions I've learned to expand my appreciation. Throw the baby out with the bath water if you choose to...that's fine...there will be some other band student (which you seem to have contempt for) who will take your place in the stands. I for one love this activity too much to be done with it for forever. It's like a child that's growing up, changing, and making its own decisions for itself independent of my wants and desires, but I still love it all the same.

The problem with these arguments is the miconceptions some people have. There were never any " Joe- Bobs " that went to Drum Corps shows. This pjorative makes one think that the earllier attendees at Drum Corps shows were stupid hayseeds devoid of intellect. That's an unfortunate caricature, and an ignorant one, frankly. Secondly, few people are demanding that all corps play ' disco " or the same songs over and over again. Corps in earlier eras. like today, offered a lot of diversity. Most people recognize that Drum Corps are technically better today, but that earlier decade shows had more popular appeal. Today, it just " different ". And those still following the activity can just say viva La Difference !" and not be overly concerned with what others think. Don't sweat this stuff. Most of those who followed the activity in earlier decades have left and they are not coming back, so the activity now is what it is. Which is not all that bad if you ask me.

Edited July 28, 2009 by BRASSO

[Medeabrass]

Yet again, I agree with you. Nice points. But I'm sad to say that I've heard the OP's complaint a lot this year myself. And the people I'm hearing it from aren't really "old school". All of them marched in the 90's actually. And for some reason they find a lot of the shows now "boring" and for various reasons. Mostly the power of the hornlines though. And some have mentioned the synth use and it's relation to brass books being more dull because of it. On those points, I do agree some some extent. Although I do find some shows still very entertaining. Again, good post.

I agree with you too. I am no homer when it comes to today's shows. I have problems with the synths and how it lessons the need for an arranger to do some creative and fun things in their books, but I do believe these things will be worked out. There always seems to be some overkill and adjustment periods after corps get their "new toys." It took a long time for them to figure out how to do instrumentation of the Bb's after the switch. Remember all the horrendous over use of mics on the field? We're still struggling with pit amping but I think they are figuring out how to make the pit blend into the ensemble. I believe we'll see the same thing with the synth. Again, I could live without any of these new toys, but I still allow myself to enjoy what's going on despite the occasional annoyance.

I also feel like this year's shows are a little bit of a step back from the last 3 years or so (last year was a particularly hard year to follow IMO) but I think we've been extremely blessed with an over abundance of great shows and it was only a matter of time till we had a collective "flat year." As far as I can tell, that's one thing that's remained consistent in the activity.

[Medeabrass]

The problem with these arguments is the miconceptions some people have. There were never any " Joe- Bobs " that went to Drum Corps shows. This pjorative makes one think that the earllier attendees at Drum Corps shows were stupid hayseeds devoid of intellect. That's an unfortunate caricature, and an ignorant one, frankly. Secondly, few people are demanding that all corps play ' disco " or the same songs over and over again. Corps in earlier eras. like today, offered a lot of diversity. Most people recognize that Drum Corps are technically better today, but that earlier decade shows had more popular appeal. Today, it just " different ". And those still following the activity can just say viva La Difference !" and not be overly concerned with what others think. Don't sweat this stuff. Most of those who followed the activity in earlier decades have left and they are not coming back, so the activity now is what it is. Which is not all that bad if you ask me.

My big problem is, why can't these people ever mention a piece that they would like to hear? They usually can't think of any.

I personally don't think earlier attendees were Joe Bobs either but that's what comes to mind when people make the "regular people" remark and show contempt for those who actually study music...(and alas, maybe I still harbor some contempt for a certain segment of the audience who thinks it's within their right to shout certain things at the participants.) He does imply that "regular people" don't have a wide knowledge of music however. I would probably put myself in this group but somehow I'm able to appreciate music I've never heard before. In fact, for every one of our favorite songs there had to be a "first listen." Why can't that be on the drum corps field?

I won't disagree that earlier shows may have had more mass appeal, but I think the average joe decades ago had a bigger appreciation for wind instruments than average joe of today. I just don't get how ones appreciation has to be so narrow as to throw the baby out with the bath water though. In all honesty, the whole argument is like a parent and teenager arguing over who's generation of music was better. Of course people are going to favor the generation in which they grew up in. I prefer late 80's early 90's DC but that doesn't preclude me from enjoying today's activity or DCs from before that time...that's just me of course.

[BRASSO]

So, nothing's changed.

Some things HAVE changed. On a positive note, for instance, when the Star of Indiana called it quits with DCI, they decided to go in a different direction and took a Drum Corps style show indoors to theatres around the world. It was a " BLAST " and won all kinds of awards, and is still in circulation world wide today. It was a huge popular and profitable success. Of particular note is that the Star of Indiana show staff abandoned the DCI "esoteric" shows and went with all the traditional visual and musical genre that were used to great success by the Drum Corps of the 70's and 80's. Later, after " BLAST " the staff tried to go more experimental and esoteric with a DCI like show entitled " Future Shock ' or something to that effect that but the show closed within weeks as nobody wanted to see that insidious excursion into the realm of the absurd and themes that were convoluted and which caused a quick discconect with most audiences.

So sometimes things do change. And they change for the better..... as it did for the Star of Indiana staff and show coordinators when they quit DCI and went on to create a show that people all over the world would love to go see and hear.

Edited July 28, 2009 by BRASSO

[Kevin Meadows]

I'm glad someone started this thread. I've been scratching my head all weekend wondering what I just saw. I went to both Murfreesboro shows, Atlanta, then Sevierville last night. Crown and Cadets were the only shows I even moderately enjoyed. With only a few exceptions, EVERY other show just....laid there. And yes I'm including SCV and Blue Devils. Heck, BD has gone soft. They don't even come to the edge of the stands when they play their encores anymore. They line up out on the field. F Tuning used to work the crowd into an absolute frenzy - now, while it still generates a few hoots and hollers, it's just...okay. After they played it last night, a polite applause was all I could muster. Cavies Encore at Atlanta was a joke. Over the rainbow never even hit MF. Crown's Encore at Murf was the only one that I actually enjoyed. And don't get me started on Madison - for the last several years their opening moments of their shows build the anticipation that you're fixing to get your ears blown off and then....blaaaaah.

I remember when I first discovered drum corps - my heart would literally leap at the mere mention of DCI. I would literally lose sleep in anticipation of an upcoming show the next day. I'm not the best at putting my thoughts on paper, so it's hard to describe how I used to feel about drum corps. But I know I used to love it as deep as I've ever loved anything. I would cry sometimes after a show because I knew that would be the last live show I would see till the next year. That's how much I loved it.

Corps just don't play loud anymore, I don't care what anyone says. I've noticed this the last few years. I wondered - was it just me? Bb bugles? Was my hearing going bad? My hearing has tested fine and the (lack of) reaction from the crowds this weekend told me it wasn't just me and that the volume and excitement that I used to feel is not there anymore.

I still appreciate the precision and musicality of the activity, but the 'x' factor of drum corps is just not there anymore.

I'm conflicted within with regard to how many shows I attend in the future. I honestly feel I wasted a lot of time and money this weekend.