Allowing Open Class DCI Corps in DCA

[84BDsop]

No, all that I (and Sam, I think -- don't want to speak for you Sam ) am suggesting is that DCA offer another option for OC corps to help themselves out with, that's all. How is that a bad thing?

Appreciate the thought....not necessary, tho. As soon as I finish lunch I'[ll start drafting my proposal....probably put it in a separate thread, tho.

[hairbear]

Because DCA doesn't WANT to grow. Minicorps Maximum, Minicorps first 20 postmark limit, Class A minimum. In DCA eyes, a luncheon is more important than performance opportunities for drumcorps. Not to say right or wrong, just that it is what it is. Judged exhibition is a bit of a waste IMO. Unweighted so you have no ideal how you compare to other similar corps. Even if you bothered wasting your time listening to the tapes and adjusting your show based on comments, it wouldn't change your score. Even if you got to do more than one DCA judged show a year. DCA doesn't WANT to grow, it's why the rules are the way they are. Price of admission too high, benefit too low. Destiny predefined.

1996 DCA FINALS: 9 corps from the northeast and 1 corps from the midwest comprised the top ten.

2009 DCA FINALS:6 corps from the east/north east, 2 corps from the south,1 corps from the west

and 1 corps from the midwest will most likely comprise the top ten.

1986 DCA: no such division as "class A."

2009 DCA: Class A is healthy and has corps from all over the country as members.

1993 DCA: A total of 13 corps attended DCA finals and prelims.

2009 DCA: A total of 26 plus corps attending DCA finals and prelims.(my best guess,based on 09 numbers).

1986 DCA: No alumni corps in existance.

2009 DCA: Sunday "Alumni Spectacular" with 8 or 9 of the countries Alumni corps in attendance.( again,my best guess)

1986 DCA: NO I&E Competitions exist.

2009 DCA: I & E competitions on Friday night,as always.

1986 DCA: No such thing as "Mini Corps".

2009 DCA: Mini corps competition on Friday night.

This is called growth. You can say all you want, these are the facts.

Dude,your comments only serve to "paint yourself into a corner."

A far more proactive response is to fill one of the 5 spots that have come open at mini corps championships,attain membership and draft a proposal that would address your concerns.

DISCLAIMER: I am getting up in my years,and some of my numbers may be off a bit.

There are SO MANY corps today,it's hard to keep track and I can't remember every tiny detail

from every DCA season I was a part of. However,I have been around long enough to remember when Steel City Ambassadors was called: "DCA WEST" and Minn.Brass needed a "visa" to cross the PA.State line, and a little remembered corps from Alliance Ohio (Ohio Brass Factory) never did make the night show! My how things have changed for the BETTER!

[Piper]

I don't understand why DCA can't work out a reciprocal agreement with DCI much like the one they have already. "You send a few corps to our shows and we'll send a few to yours". Seems to work just fine to me. There might be a few i's and t's to be dotted and crossed, but I don't see any reason why it couldn't work. It helps fill out the lineup, and many DCI kids (and they're not all kids either) have never even SEEN a DCA corps before. Also, there are usually quite a few newbies in the crowd who wouldn't know the difference between the Kilties and the Madison Scouts. Anyone who's ever marched in a parade before knows what I'm talking about.

[84BDsop]

And here's my idea.... http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/inde...howtopic=128142

[bill]

I don't understand why DCA can't work out a reciprocal agreement with DCI much like the one they have already. "You send a few corps to our shows and we'll send a few to yours". Seems to work just fine to me. There might be a few i's and t's to be dotted and crossed, but I don't see any reason why it couldn't work. It helps fill out the lineup, and many DCI kids (and they're not all kids either) have never even SEEN a DCA corps before. Also, there are usually quite a few newbies in the crowd who wouldn't know the difference between the Kilties and the Madison Scouts. Anyone who's ever marched in a parade before knows what I'm talking about.

I noticed when The Kilties competed in the Madison Scouts "Drums on Parade" show the end of June; many in the stands thought the Scouts and the Kilts were one in the same corps......many said it was like looking in a mirror!!

Seriously, in the Midwest the "all age" corps do compete in DCI-Central shows during the season, and OC corps are always open for invitation to perform in DCA-C shows if they would like and if they can work the dates into their tour schedule. The Midwest may have a little more of a open arms approach to the activity as a whole, due to the inclusiveness approach stemming from the DCM days.

[Shadow_7]

This is called growth. You can say all you want, these are the facts.

Dude,your comments only serve to "paint yourself into a corner."

A far more proactive response is to fill one of the 5 spots that have come open at mini corps championships,attain membership and draft a proposal that would address your concerns.

2005, 26 corps competing at prelims (16/10 Open/A)

2006, 23 corps competing at prelims (16/7 Open/A)

2007, 22 corps competing at prelims (13/9 Open/A)

2008, 24 corps competing at prelims (12/12 Open/A)

2009, ???

2008, 2 DCA sanctioned shows in state

2009, 0 DCA sanctioned shows (but there was one DCA judged show where NO ONE got a score)

Since the 35 rule hit the market (post 2006), growth is stagnant. Except for minicorps, that for many is their ONLY remaining option. And for others requires a complete show redesign (drum feature? guard feature?). And for those with 22 to 34, in the ABSENCE of DCA, their season can end as early as JUNE, instead of at labor day(SEPTEMBER). And IMO that does NOT promote growth. It's almost like major league baseball encourage growth by banning half the minor leagues from playing scored games. And it's just a number, 35 that is. There was already an implied 22 minimum. And since there's no problem moving it to a hard 35, then there's no issue moving it to 50, after five years of building and finally getting that 35th member. It's the nature of the rule, and therefor the nature of those who voted for it. IN MY OPINION.

Not to prolong this senseless debate on sensless rules geared towards keeping corps OUT of competition for YEARS at a time.

[hairbear]

2005, 26 corps competing at prelims (16/10 Open/A)

2006, 23 corps competing at prelims (16/7 Open/A)

2007, 22 corps competing at prelims (13/9 Open/A)

2008, 24 corps competing at prelims (12/12 Open/A)

2009, ???

2008, 2 DCA sanctioned shows in state

2009, 0 DCA sanctioned shows (but there was one DCA judged show where NO ONE got a score)

Since the 35 rule hit the market (post 2006), growth is stagnant. Except for minicorps, that for many is their ONLY remaining option. And for others requires a complete show redesign (drum feature? guard feature?). And for those with 22 to 34, in the ABSENCE of DCA, their season can end as early as JUNE, instead of at labor day(SEPTEMBER). And IMO that does NOT promote growth. It's almost like major league baseball encourage growth by banning half the minor leagues from playing scored games. And it's just a number, 35 that is. There was already an implied 22 minimum. And since there's no problem moving it to a hard 35, then there's no issue moving it to 50, after five years of building and finally getting that 35th member. It's the nature of the rule, and therefor the nature of those who voted for it. IN MY OPINION.

Not to prolong this senseless debate on sensless rules geared towards keeping corps OUT of competition for YEARS at a time.

I find myself in agreement with you. I ALSO see this debate as senseless. Enjoy your new hobby!

[Sayre Kulp]

2005, 26 corps competing at prelims (16/10 Open/A)

2006, 23 corps competing at prelims (16/7 Open/A)

2007, 22 corps competing at prelims (13/9 Open/A)

2008, 24 corps competing at prelims (12/12 Open/A)

2009, ???

2008, 2 DCA sanctioned shows in state

2009, 0 DCA sanctioned shows (but there was one DCA judged show where NO ONE got a score)

Since the 35 rule hit the market (post 2006), growth is stagnant. Except for minicorps, that for many is their ONLY remaining option. And for others requires a complete show redesign (drum feature? guard feature?). And for those with 22 to 34, in the ABSENCE of DCA, their season can end as early as JUNE, instead of at labor day(SEPTEMBER). And IMO that does NOT promote growth. It's almost like major league baseball encourage growth by banning half the minor leagues from playing scored games. And it's just a number, 35 that is. There was already an implied 22 minimum. And since there's no problem moving it to a hard 35, then there's no issue moving it to 50, after five years of building and finally getting that 35th member. It's the nature of the rule, and therefor the nature of those who voted for it. IN MY OPINION.

Not to prolong this senseless debate on sensless rules geared towards keeping corps OUT of competition for YEARS at a time.

And THIS is exactly you're problem. You're choosing to look at 2-5 years. DCA is looking at the long-term "BIG PICTURE" based on the lessons learned over the past 44 years!!!

Let me make this easy... you want a score, right?

That's what all you're pissing and moaning is about?

I give you a 00.000 based on the fact that you have no corps and no show and have done nothing more than ##### online for the past 3 years about the same things, regardless of the irrefutable evidence thrown in your face every step of the way.

Feel better? Wasn't that worthwhile?

Quick... put it up on the DCA website so this momentous occasion can be remembered forever.

Gil, write the check so we can get the photographers and video crews out to Shadow's house so he can have pictures of himself. Oh, don't forget to put down the extra $$$. We want the cameras they use for filming underwater, ya know, just in case it rains.

[G-horns]

DISCLAIMER: I am getting up in my years,and some of my numbers may be off a bit.

There are SO MANY corps today,it's hard to keep track and I can't remember every tiny detail

from every DCA season I was a part of. However,I have been around long enough to remember when Steel City Ambassadors was called: "DCA WEST" and Minn.Brass needed a "visa" to cross the PA.State line, and a little remembered corps from Alliance Ohio (Ohio Brass Factory) never did make the night show! My how things have changed for the BETTER!

Anyone remember the "buzz" the first year the Renegades came out to DCA Finals after winning the mini-corps show the year before? I think the prelim stands were just about at capacity when they started their warm-up. IMO that was a pivotal moment for DCA.

[MikeD]

As I mentioned before -- let's say an Open class corps was thinking about this for next year. They're not ready to completely abandon DCI, but they see the writing on the wall and want to try to test the waters with DCA so they're not caught completely unprepared if DCI becomes untenable or unavailable to them.

In this scenario, how hard would it be to design a show that uses whatever tools they care to use to be competitive in DCI (amps, narration, synths, whatever), but is not so dependant on those tools that the show still works under DCA rules?

Not hard at all, me thinks. I marched a show once that had two different concert tunes. Different tunes, different drill sets. When we prepared for a contest, if was either Concert A or Concert B. We might do one for prelims and another for finals. No biggie. So I don't think it would that big a deal for a corps to design a show that is adaptable to the circumstance.

The pit has worked all season long on their performance using amps...playing style, mallet selection, volume, phrasing...etc. Trying to be a little this and a little that would end up making them not much of either, IMO.