What killed drum corps in Canada?

[KeithHall]

In Ontario, it was the demise of three corps.....Seneca Optimists, Oakland Crusaders and Dutchboy. Lets face it all three were flash in the pans. Oakland tried to hang on but just couldn't. The Dutchboy that made to the top 12 once was finished after that. I know....Dutchboy is still going however they aren't at the top anymore and haven't been for a long time. In Quebec....Les Eclipse almost did it, Les Etoile, Acadamie Musicale, etc. All nice corps but nothing behind them once they got to a certain place. Lets not forget Offensive Lions, between them and Les Eclipse they were the hope of Canada in their time.

I have to say that money plays a big factor in all this as well as good management. If you plan a trip from Ohio to Germany and your pilot can only get you to Greenland, your trip wasn't a success was it?

[bluehull]

What are the factors that have led to the demise of drum corps in Canada?

Since I started following the activity in the '80s, we have seen quality groups like Ventures, Canadian Knighs, Les Eclipse, Les Etoiles, Dutch Boy (at least as a World Class group), L'Insolite, Academie Musicale, and probably another few corps I'm forgetting come and go.

And, back in the 70s there were other Canadian corps that were finalist caliber.

For a number of years the dollar differential took a severe toll, and more recently the results of 9/11 which now require passports to cross the border. It is almost impossible to get third nationals across the border either way. For a drum corps to get itself through customs it is a major endeavor! This decline is not relegated to just drum corps, it has affected sports teams, cross border commerce, and social interaction. In northern New England, there are famlies that live on both sides of the line, and have for a hundred years. They now need passports to visit each other, even though the customs people have known them for twenty years on a first name basis. It is unfortunate, because Canada has always been a big part of drum corps.

At open class competition, I have to take my hat off to the kids from Les Stentors, that rode all the way from Quebec in a school bus!

[Guardguy89]

I think I can answer this

I marched in Les Eclipses and Connexion Quebec and taught Académie Musicale and Les Étoiles

There were 2 fundamental problems:

1) Finances - these were all "mom and pop" drum corps who just weren't able to keep up financially. Competing in the states was costly, and funds were always scarce.

2) Membership - there are no band programs in Quebec schools. It just became harder and harder to recruit people as we had no talent pool available. As for the talented members they (myself included) wanted to experience the big American corps and started migrating towards the states at a greater level

It's really sad that we no longer have drum corps here - except for Les Stentors - but even though some people have been trying to start it up again, I just don't see it happening.

Later,

Mike

[Northern Thunder]

Looking at the number of Canadian junior corps that made it to the field we find:

1975--Ontario-26/Quebec-30

1980--Ontario-18/Quebec-28

1985--Ontario-19/Quebec-20

1990--Ontario-15/Quebec-10

1995--Ontario-13/Quebec-16

2000-Ontario-6/Quebec-9

2005--Ontario-5/Quebec-1

2009--Ontario-2/Quebec-1

British Columbia, Alberta and Saskatchewan have also had junior field corps over this span.

Edited August 6, 2009 by Northern Thunder

[blueorginal]

Toronto had Seneca and Etobicote in Finals might be the only time 2 finalist came from the same city/metro area

The other thing that killed CN Drum Corps was the Boarder in the 70's was easy to get the corps/equipment across to do shows but then things changed and crossing the boarder for corps became 4-5 hours ordials

[lindap]

I think I can answer this

I marched in Les Eclipses and Connexion Quebec and taught Académie Musicale and Les Étoiles

There were 2 fundamental problems:

1) Finances - these were all "mom and pop" drum corps who just weren't able to keep up financially. Competing in the states was costly, and funds were always scarce.

2) Membership - there are no band programs in Quebec schools. It just became harder and harder to recruit people as we had no talent pool available. As for the talented members they (myself included) wanted to experience the big American corps and started migrating towards the states at a greater level

It's really sad that we no longer have drum corps here - except for Les Stentors - but even though some people have been trying to start it up again, I just don't see it happening.

Later,

Mike

My signature covers 20 years, Ontario/Alberta, marching/instructing, drum corps/winter guard. Your post is mostly true for Alberta too. Travel is a factor for us, takes at least 6 hours to get to the border. I’ve also known of many that marched their age-out year in a corps of their choice.

I’ve been secretary/treasurer for numerous community and youth related not-for-profits for about 23 years from 1979-2009; few years off due to volunteer burnout. I’ve found it easier to procure funding for capital projects. Projects for youth require complex business plans, long term sustainability reports and should include school curriculum.

Currently in Alberta there’s 1 or 2 drum corps, most middle and high schools have stage/jazz bands, many of the marching bands are in the south and competitive cheerleading is big here. My 2 cents.

I’m excited about drum corps 2009, go get it kids!!! :-)

[doctor john]

The healthcare system ?

win

[bradrick]

They're not even a real country anyway.

[skajerk]

Hockey.....and that ##### Ann Murray too

Terrance and Phillip

[byline]

And, back in the 70s there were other Canadian corps that were finalist caliber.

Yup, De La Salle Oaklands and Toronto Optimists, then the two merger corps, Oakland Crusaders and Seneca Optimists . . . to name a few.

There were many factors that played into the demise of Canadian corps, many of them identical to factors that played into the demise of U.S. corps: Inflation, escalating gasoline prices, inability to retain a local membership core group, etc. Additional factors included the fluctuating exchange rate between the Canadian dollar and the U.S. dollar, which meant that Canadian corps nearly always paid even more for goods and services than U.S. corps did. Add in the fact that Canadian corps generally had to travel greater distances to DCI shows than most U.S. corps, and there you have the perfect recipe for financial disaster.

It then became a downward spiral caused mostly by economics. Canadian corps couldn't afford to pay their staff, so where did they go? To the corps that could pay them. So then Canadian corps suffered by not being able to keep up with the Joneses, design-wise, which created another ripple effect. The most talented corps members followed their staff to U.S. corps, or went wherever they felt they could get the most competitively rewarding experience. And on that circle went.

Doug cited the lack of high school band programs in Canada, and while that was a factor, I don't think it was the biggest one. There were plenty of talented musicians back when I marched (though admittedly many came from the States). But I think this played more of a role in an inability to retain a local core group of members, which eventually became a non-factor for most corps. After all, now many corps nowadays have a local core group of members? Seems to me it's all done by audition, and only the most talented members get in, regardless of where they come from.

And didn't Toronto actually have two different corps in Finals one year? When will that ever happen again?

Yes, that was Oakland Crusaders and Seneca Optimists back in 1976.

actually, according to Don Warren, the name came about because they thought Drum Corps National sounded flaky. They choose DCI regardless of the Canada corps of the time, as VFW was set up for American corps.

You could be right, but that's not how I remember it being explained on the "Brass Roots" video. I can't remember who was explaining this (it might have been Don), but basically they were meeting to decide what the new entity would be and come up with a name for it. Someone said, "Drum Corps National," but then someone else (I believe from Del) chimed in and asked, "Hey, what about us?" So they changed it to Drum Corps International so that Canadian corps were included in the competitive structure.

Edited August 6, 2009 by byline