Synthesized Timpani

[s3si1u]

I would say that there's no danger of losing brass instruments to synth replacement anytime soon. The powers that be have indicated previously that they're still mainstream marching folks - I don't think winds have ever been - or ever will be - in any danger.

That said, I could definitely see changes in the pit a-coming. Especially in this case, where you can eliminate one acoustic position and save over $10k without losing the sound in the process.

And let's face it, if you accept the "no woodwinds" argument that they're not built for touring, marching, adverse conditions... and you're going to tell me that concert timpani *are*?!?

Mike

Well it's worked out alright so far. And the timpani is, of course, a percussive instrument, specifically a drum. It qualifies to be used in drum corps. I don't think that woodwind argument works out well here...Since woodwinds aren't drums nor bugles. I'm also pretty sure timpani have been quite mainstream for a while.

I know they're no longer used that same way, but they're still an integral part of drum corps. It would be pretty sad to see them go, just as it would be sad to see the low brass or keys go.

[garfield]

It seems to me that the Roland triggers could do away with all of the pit. All of the pit's tones are single dimensional and mostly affected by velocity, impact, and speed - all of which a computer can do just as fast as the performer. One synth operator to collect and process the wireless signals is all you'd need. The Roland pads are definately lighter; don't know about comparing price (input better-informed thoughts here).

Getting the pit back out onto the field would impact visual design, maybe for the better? It would sure clean up the sidelines.

Ironic at the thought of the pit moving back onto the field after being grounded for, what, 35 years?

Question: How do the synths reproduce the Sfz at the beginning of Cadet's "To Tame The Perilous Skies" (and many others, I'm sure)?

[MikeN]

Given all this, I could definitely see it happening, especially in smaller Open Class corps, as a cost-cutting decision. However, I think it'd be a loss, and I bet/hope the corps that have the money to maintain timpani will keep them.

Nick - many thanks for your thoughtful analysis on here.

Mike

[Mello Dude]

Screw it. Tape the show, and just have everyone march to the music ala WGI. Cheaper, and with big enough speakers louder...win win. Push that BIG easy button.

[DRB]

If there is a change DCI needs to make it is to dump the pit and go back to marching instruments. Look at the photos of the corps from the 70's. Everything looks clean. Now you have to look past 12 performers to see the rest of the drum & brass band.

Go back to marching instruments, have the starting and ending pistol, bring back retreats, and while you are at it, some G horns as well.

[jeff danchik]

can you do as much with an electronic one?

Yes,

we used a Roland SPD pad,Yamaha DTX 2,Yamaha soft synths sounds through an IBM laptop and modulated the sound with a pedal.Wasn't bad.

If you have facebook some photos:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/photo.ph...mp;id=503754716

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/photo.ph...mp;id=503754716

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/photo.ph...id=132127364716

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/photo.ph...id=132131079716

[garfield]

If there is a change DCI needs to make it is to dump the pit and go back to marching instruments. Look at the photos of the corps from the 70's. Everything looks clean. Now you have to look past 12 performers to see the rest of the drum & brass band.

Go back to marching instruments, have the starting and ending pistol, bring back retreats, and while you are at it, some G horns as well.

TICKS!!!!

[kstein]

Yuck, wrong, blech, ick.

Next thing you know they'll be holding Finals in an echo chamber...

Oh, wait...

[CrownStarr]

Nick - many thanks for your thoughtful analysis on here.

Mike

You're welcome! I feel like, as an actual synth player, I have somewhat of an obligation to contribute to these sorts of discussions

[BozzlyB]

I'm not sure everyone here realizes just how much of a grey area this argument lies in. The frozen moment wasn't really a celeste. Sure, it sounded kinda like one, but it was really supposed to be a music box. That's what the staff referred to it as, but you know what the patch was named on the synth? It was something completely unrelated, called "Ice Bells" or something. And as I was fiddling with the sound over the summer, I found that that particular patch was synthesized by combining 3/4 other, very simple patches, none of which really sounded like any acoustic instrument.

So, from my vantage point, I never once thought of myself as really emulating any particular instrument in that section (music box was the closest). However, some people obviously thought it sounded like a celeste. So I ask you: was I duplicating an existing percussion instrument or not? I think you can argue convincingly either way.

I disagree. At the risk of shooting myself in the foot for any future defense of synths, the sound is not even close to the same. The expressive range of a synth is extremely one-dimensional. The only thing you can do to affect the sound you're putting out is very how hard you hit the key, which results in an internal "velocity" value ranging from 0 to 127. It may look like a piano, but it's really a very simple substitute. Coming from a classical piano background, there's a huge variety in sound that you can achieve on a good grand that's absolutely not there in a synth. Likewise, take any of the other pit instruments - it's not just about how hard you hit a key or a cymbal measured in 128 discrete chunks. There's the question of what mallet/stick you're using just to begin with, the speed of your stroke, how high you're playing from, and countless other fine touches (I'm not a marimba player, I just play one on TV/watch them rehearse all the time). A synth may seem like it can replicate another instrument, but it can't really replicate all the nuances of technique and performance that really talented performers (like those in drum corps) have.

Now, don't take what I'm saying to mean that synths have no use in a pit. They can be used to replicate instruments not allowed in drum corps to a reasonable level of accuracy - obviously piano, but there was also Boston's sitar last year, Phantom's violin, and probably other examples that I can't think of. They can also be used for brief effects, or to augment the sound of the whole corps (much like cymbals, bass drums, gongs, and timpani, before anyone jumps on me for that comment).

- You'd lose quite a bit. For one thing, a good rack player is busy for quite a large part of the show, and my own experience on the synth was that I was playing pretty much constantly. If you'd made me play the rack part too, it would have been hopeless, and both parts would have to be watered down significantly. Plus, like I said above, a synth player just pushing the cymbal button is not going to cover the variety of sound you can get out of a rack.

- Yeah, not really. Playing fast repeated notes with any consistency on a piano keyboard is way ridiculously absurdly harder than doing the same on a mallet or battery instrument. You might be able to work something up as a gimmick, but I really doubt you'll ever see a keyboard replacing any part of the battery. Electric drums might be another matter, but I'm not really a battery player, so I'll let someone else dig into that question.

Now, as for the topic at hand, I think timpani would make significantly more sense than other pit instruments to replace with a synth, for a number of reasons, though I don't think they should. Why replace timpani with synths?

• As MikeN points out, timpani are not meant for a drum corps tour. They're probably the single most inconvenient equipment in a drum corps to transport around. From what I can tell, it seems like DCI timpanists spend more of their day tuning than playing.

• Quite a lot of the time, from what I've seen, the timpani's role musically is very much a background one. Generally, their part isn't something unique and different, they're just filling in the bottom part of the spectrum. Obviously this is a task that could be covered by a synth player's left hand a lot of the time (since DCP complains that that's what most synth players did anyway).

• I'm not an accountant, but I bet a nice full set of timpani is pretty expensive.

However, I don't think corps should run out and toss their timpani in the dumpster. Just because the timpani generally are used in the music just to fill out the bottom part doesn't mean they always do that. The timpani can be a pretty awesome and instense instrument, and I wouldn't want to just throw that away. Plus, as I said before, a synth could decently fill in for the role of the timpani, but it's really not the same as having actual timpani there. It never is.

Given all this, I could definitely see it happening, especially in smaller Open Class corps, as a cost-cutting decision. However, I think it'd be a loss, and I bet/hope the corps that have the money to maintain timpani will keep them.

Fascinating read, thank you.