What is missing from Drum Corps today

[FHdork]

Rimba47....are you sure you're not 47 years old? Well said.

<The big debate in performing arts for centuries for composers... is why do they write music... is it to please others? or to please themselves. We are seeing this same thing in drum corps.>

I've always found that the works I like best are those that came from a quality composer's soul. Beethoven wrote his share of pieces just to have enough food on the table and someone to empty his chamber pot twice a week (yuk...) - but the works we know him for are the ones he had no commission to write...no audience that he knew of - just God speaking through Beethoven...inspiration, don't ya know -

That said - drum corps walks a fine, fine line. For every 93 Star (and there are darn few...), there are a dozen corps who strove to open the artistic box and create something unique, but find themselves remembered with a shrug instead of a 'heck yeah!' That I find much of today's design boring is, as Rimba47 says well, my problem.

Thanks to DCP, I have a place where I can come and spew...making sense (or not) as the mood strikes me!

[pizzaguy]

First of all, I think this problem is being grossly overestimated. I find a great deal of variety and musicality and excitement in the 2009 season, e.g. a large number of strongly jazz-based programs, a good mix of symphonic faves w/ quality modern compositions, quality ballads from a wide range of sources, fully-developed musical thoughts and plenty of WOW moments. And VERY EXCITING performances by all the marching members. It's important to stress that this discussion is about show design, NOT quality of performance, lest current members get the wrong idea. Even w/ that caviat, how anyone could characterize a current top 12 musical performance as "boring" is way beyond me.

Agreed, there is a problem w/ music programming. It is not a problem of formulaic show design, reliance on wind band literature, sacrificing "volume and excitement" for a certain amount of musical sophistication and dynamic constrast, or judges "punishing" exciting performances. It is simply a matter of music vs. visual. The problem reached its apex in the middle of the decade w/ Cavies visual-driven programs w/ weak original music in a supporting role (albeit great perc scores by Jim Casella) and many shows w/ too many disjointed medleys and far too few fully-developed musical ideas. A very unfortunate trend stemming from this misguided idea of the importance of a visual or intellectual theme. The poster who wrote that it should be it should be ALL ABOUT the music is absolutely right. Who would go see a ballet that had been choreographed first w/ the music as an afterthought to fit the dancing??

BUT, we have turned the corner on this and are headed in the right direction. The 2009 Cadets show bears witness to this, as do most of the 2009 World Class shows. Many of the shows had musical, rather than visual, themes and the ones w/ visual themes still had strong well-developed music. I think we just need to stay the course and remember this basic premise and we'll be fine.

The primary reason this problem developed in the first place is simply relative weight of music and visual scoring. BITD in the 80s (and yeah, I agree, it WAS AWESOME!), music comprised 2/3 of the total score vs. visual 1/3. Now it's 50/50. Maybe a 60/40 ratio would help keep our heads straight. Sure, there were other factors like easier drills, G-bugles, mylar heads, generally more to-the-point arranging, etc., but it's all about winning.

And again, CONGRATULATIONS to all the 2009 corps on a VERY EXCITING season!

[84skyrydr]

First of all, I think this problem is being grossly overestimated. I find a great deal of variety and musicality and excitement in the 2009 season, e.g. a large number of strongly jazz-based programs, a good mix of symphonic faves w/ quality modern compositions, quality ballads from a wide range of sources, fully-developed musical thoughts and plenty of WOW moments. And VERY EXCITING performances by all the marching members. It's important to stress that this discussion is about show design, NOT quality of performance, lest current members get the wrong idea. Even w/ that caviat, how anyone could characterize a current top 12 musical performance as "boring" is way beyond me.

Agreed, there is a problem w/ music programming. It is not a problem of formulaic show design, reliance on wind band literature, sacrificing "volume and excitement" for a certain amount of musical sophistication and dynamic constrast, or judges "punishing" exciting performances. It is simply a matter of music vs. visual. The problem reached its apex in the middle of the decade w/ Cavies visual-driven programs w/ weak original music in a supporting role (albeit great perc scores by Jim Casella) and many shows w/ too many disjointed medleys and far too few fully-developed musical ideas. A very unfortunate trend stemming from this misguided idea of the importance of a visual or intellectual theme. The poster who wrote that it should be it should be ALL ABOUT the music is absolutely right. Who would go see a ballet that had been choreographed first w/ the music as an afterthought to fit the dancing??

BUT, we have turned the corner on this and are headed in the right direction. The 2009 Cadets show bears witness to this, as do most of the 2009 World Class shows. Many of the shows had musical, rather than visual, themes and the ones w/ visual themes still had strong well-developed music. I think we just need to stay the course and remember this basic premise and we'll be fine.

The primary reason this problem developed in the first place is simply relative weight of music and visual scoring. BITD in the 80s (and yeah, I agree, it WAS AWESOME!), music comprised 2/3 of the total score vs. visual 1/3. Now it's 50/50. Maybe a 60/40 ratio would help keep our heads straight. Sure, there were other factors like easier drills, G-bugles, mylar heads, generally more to-the-point arranging, etc., but it's all about winning.

And again, CONGRATULATIONS to all the 2009 corps on a VERY EXCITING season!

Some shows truly are BORING. How anyone can say that none of them bore them to tears is unbeliveable Not to say there weren't plenty of boring shows in the past, but at least they were understandable. Not done as well due to the talent pool being spread between 100 corps, but understandable.

[pizzaguy]

Ya know, the more I think about the 80s and early 90s, the more I can see his point. Show design SHOULD be more effect driven and to-the-point (and less cerebral) in both music and visual. Although I don't think it's the fault of the judging system. (After all, PR '08 won GE, and '09 Cadets did well in that caption, except perc.) But I still find it hard to comprehend someone actually being "bored" by a top 12 show in recent years. And I still say it's about putting the music first and it's getting better year by year. Hey, I can admit when I'm not COMPLETELY right!

[Bruckner8]

Some shows truly are BORING. How anyone can say that none of them bore them to tears is unbeliveable Not to say there weren't plenty of boring shows in the past, but at least they were understandable. Not done as well due to the talent pool being spread between 100 corps, but understandable.

I thought Star 93 was boring. But I know the real music very well, so I'm judging it strictly on its musical value alone. I'm not sure how a drum corps can perform a "Dance of Vengeance" in a boring way, but Star 93 managed. A very safe, predictable performance, never felt like it was on the edge. "Safe" is Star's calling card, along with all of its disciples since. Clean and safe. (Respighi serves them much better.)

Star 93 raised the bar for "Ensemble music," the likes of which has not been seen before or since. But I'm relieved they did not win. In fact, I had them 3rd...until that mellophone player from Phantom went through Drum Corps Puberty.

[glory]

and worse...i have seen some of these same ideas done in indoor shows and with band shows that were easier to follow than what we see on the DCI field.

i've said it before, I'll say it again. at a clinic I saw Cesario do a few years ago, he said "the biggest problem is too many designers are too busy designing to impress their friends and some judges, that they forget the fans...and some judges as well.

judges are fans...they WANT to be entertained. They WANT to shed a tear or laugh or yell "WOW THAT WAS AWESOME!" into their recorders.

However, few seem to want to actually be bold enough to design a show that makes the judges and fans do so."

he's so right

I'll say this to y'all and to Cesario:

Not every show back in the day was great. Not every design worked. There were shows that didn't "Wow" us then just as there are shows which don't wow us today. Cadets were full of Wow. Crown and SCV had plenty enough Wow. It's not as if there is no Wow today. It's not as if it was all Wow yesterday. Wow.

HH

[Fred Windish]

Seems to me, the drum corps activity survives mostly on its ability to market itself publicly as a legitimate ENTERTAINMENT option. Membership dues alone can NOT support the national circuit we (still) enjoy. "Others" need to buy-in to what we do wherever we go to display our product.

Our activity, and most others, needs to lean toward MAINSTREAM appeal for its sustenance. We can only answer declining crowd numbers with rising ticket prices so long. There comes a point of decreasing return. For me, that point came to this endeavor 8-10 years ago.

Do many posters really believe the current activity has BROAD appeal? So satisfied with what we offer, confident each could convince their unassuming neighbor to plunk down $25 per family member to see what we do, then go home thinking "Gee, that was a great night out for all of us! We were thoroughly engaged, entertained."

Our performance medium should be instantly satisfying to the average "Joe and Jill." They should not have to view what we do 3-4 times before they actually start to "get it." An emotional and comfortable connection is required quickly and often throughout the evening. There is no patience for some designer's egotistical "experiment" when we only present ourselves in once per year in each community.

Let's start by adding more COMMONLY appreciated melody to every corps' program. Our technical prowess is obviously there but to me, it's being wasted in reach for the wrong goals.

We really should not try to do Bernstein, better than Bernstein did himself.

[Newseditor44]

Watch Carolina Crown, Phantom Regiment, SCV, Cadets, etc. You do not NEED G bugles to have entertaining shows.

If DCI were to go back to G horns, I would buy tickets to every west coast show. To me, and a lot of others, that is what made drum corps stand out. And there was a huge difference in the power and sound of hornlines that made them extremely special. But to each his own.

[glory]

I've only been watching corps for 35 years now -- but Michael Cesario was "spot on" with the above comment. The "WOW" is gone. For fans and judges alike. Staffs are so preoccupied with showing up "the other guy"'s staff that they've abandoned the paying fan completely...

Wait a minute...

We weren't Wowed by machine Cavies put on the field in 2006? I sure thought I was. What about Crown's horses and Bluecoats' criminals in 2007? I was Wowed. Was I the only one? Spartacus? No Wow? Cadets running company front in 2009? Just me?

HH

[glory]

I'm a younger guy still marching in a world class corps. I've only been fan of drum corps for about 5 years.

I don't think that DCI should move in a direction where it creates shows just to please those fans who want a 2010 corps to sound like their favorite 80's corps. To change DCI because a hole in their heart is empty now that their favorite show is over 30 years old. The years we have lived always seem sweeter than the years we are living, but that doesn't mean we should resurrect the past. Learn to appreciate something new. As a younger member I've fallen in love with the modern drum corps not the one's from decades ago. I don't mind the innovations in the activity and I certainly don't mind any changes that have yet to come. And I'm sorry that you older guys can't appreciate the way I feel about drum corps today. In 20 years from now the activity will be different, maybe not what I had originally fallen in love but things change and I wouldn't want to be stubborn and selfish to believe that an activity should change just so it pleases me. But I know that I'll always be a fan and frankly don't think I'd find myself dreaming of the good old drum corps days when blah blah was better and blah blah was louder.

If drum corps wants to gain popularity it can't just think about pleasing older fans. It needs to please younger fans as well like myself. If this discussion is about the current popularity of drum corps in general (which it partly is) then you can't leave out the majority of the population which include youth. We have different tastes in a lot things and the generation gap is difficult to come to terms with. But what needs to realize is that MAYBE what wowed a stadium full of people in the past WON'T wow a stadium full of people now. The bottom line is that its possible to strike a balance between what pleases an older fan and a younger fan. But I honestly feel that changes like that happen naturally and are happening.

So, to answer the question "what's missing from drum corps?" I would have to say nothing. I love the activity as it stands and all the innovations/growing pains it can endure. Every show has something to offer that I enjoy and I don't expect to like every single formation and note I hear in a show, even in the ones I marched but that’s natural and I don't think that justifies completely overhauling DCI and what not. But the bottom line is that DCI should look toward innovation to garner more popularity and revenue, not over its shoulder.

emphasis added

Said well and needed to be said. Welcome to DCP. Don't let the man get you down!

HH