What is missing from Drum Corps today

[perc2100]

Fixed!

Beat me to it

[cowtown]

What?

Am I the only one who noticed BD sitting in chairs last year? That's not pushing creative boundries? Ditto for Cavies making machines, Bluecoats catching criminals and Crown's horses. Programs such as those weren't contemplated in the 90s and not because of Bb, amps or anything other than imagination and evolution.

BD's dance derby surely was a different conception whatever you thought about yowza. Cadets in the narration years set out to push the boundary on articulation. You can't dismiss the push just because it involved amps. It was a push.

I don't get it. I don't get where anyone can claim this activity hasn't changed much lately. Next thing you know we'll be complaining that drum corps today is too old-fashioned.

HH

We have seen chairs on the field before - all girl corps that had funny hats, was it the Ventures...I forget, it’s been so long

Cavies making machines.....some of those moves were pretty old, the robot rifle pass for one and the robot dance itself and that bendy move was an update of their wave motion move that used and re-used years prior

Crown doing William tell, didn't Bridgeman do that in the 70s 0r 80s and ride flag poles around like a horse? Again, I may have the wrong corps and that Yowza show - was a rip of a wgi show

But more importantly, they didn’t do a good job with it, total design failure, I didn’t get the backwards in time concept until I had already sat through it 3 times

But you are right, the activity has changed, so what?

what drum corps is missing these days is fan like me sitting in domes that suck watching sucky, bland, cookie cutter shows that can hardly complete a musical thought or phrase

Yep, we need new blood in the design ranks - the corps refreshes themselves too bad the staffs are so stale, tired, worn out....old. They are the real dinosaurs that should be shown the door. People like Hopkins know it, he knows us dinosaurs have seen his bag of tricks and that his shows are rather threadbare re-hashed ideas with ham-fisted arrangements…that’s why he hates us dinosaurs, we know he’s the faker and will call him on it. We also know he’s out of ideas, need proof… Jethro Tull (because all the kids love 70s prog-rock) yet the Borg will still maintain baton boy as innovation (yeah, that’s an envelope that need to be pushed)

[GMichael1230]

We have seen chairs on the field before - all girl corps that had funny hats, was it the Ventures...I forget, it’s been so long

Cavies making machines.....some of those moves were pretty old, the robot rifle pass for one and the robot dance itself and that bendy move was an update of their wave motion move that used and re-used years prior

Crown doing William tell, didn't Bridgeman do that in the 70s 0r 80s and ride flag poles around like a horse? Again, I may have the wrong corps and that Yowza show - was a rip of a wgi show

But more importantly, they didn’t do a good job with it, total design failure, I didn’t get the backwards in time concept until I had already sat through it 3 times

But you are right, the activity has changed, so what?

what drum corps is missing these days is fan like me sitting in domes that suck watching sucky, bland, cookie cutter shows that can hardly complete a musical thought or phrase

Yep, we need new blood in the design ranks - the corps refreshes themselves too bad the staffs are so stale, tired, worn out....old. They are the real dinosaurs that should be shown the door. People like Hopkins know it, he knows us dinosaurs have seen his bag of tricks and that his shows are rather threadbare re-hashed ideas with ham-fisted arrangements…that’s why he hates us dinosaurs, we know he’s the faker and will call him on it. We also know he’s out of ideas, need proof… Jethro Tull (because all the kids love 70s prog-rock) yet the Borg will still maintain baton boy as innovation (yeah, that’s an envelope that need to be pushed)

Les Chatelaines

G

[cowtown]

ah, thanks, no disrespect to them, many of the Canadian corps were pretty different...in the 80s there was far greater variety on the field so it’s hard for me to recall them all specifically – plus those missing brain cells

[BRASSO]

This is crazy how different our opinions can be on this subject. To me, the changes in drum corps over the past 10 years are very subtle. I actually think there were less changes between 1990 and 2010 than 1980 and 1990.

I think it is very difficult for us drum corps "die-hards" to really look at the activity as a whole. Think about this. What if you took a complete outsider and showed them a few shows from the 2007-2009 seasons, then 1986-1988 seasons, then 1978-1980 seasons, then ask them to determine which of the three groups was least like the other?...... I truly think they would say that 1978-1980 was the odd one out.... and it is only 8 years away from the second group..... and there's 19 years between the other two.

I know from a "nuts and bolts" perspective 2009 is more different than 1985 than 1985 is from 1978.... but do we really judge drum corps by its nuts and bolts? Do we really care more about rules than what is actually going on on the field?

Does anyone really think that from a show design perspective, the activity has changed more recently than in the early 80s? It's not even close. Go watch the Cadets 1985 show. There is no way that could have even existed just 4 years earlier..... can we say this about any recent show?..... I think not.

You make some valid points here, I believe.

To follow your suggestion, if we asked " complete outsiders " to tell us if the unit from ( say ) 1980 was " a Drum and Bugle Corps " or a " Marching Band ", we might get an interesting reponse. Perhaps they'd not see the difference, but my hunch many would they'd be inclined to call the unit a " Drum and Bugle Corps " ( especially if the " complete outsider " was from the northeast, as most people had at least SOME knowledge of Drum and Bugle Corps as they were prevalent in most communities ). Fast forward next to ( say ) 2009, and ask the " complete outsider " to tell us if the unit was " a Drum and Bugle Corps " or " a Marching Band", and I think the response would be almost universal,... that these units are " Marching Bands ". So, from my perspective, the changes in the activity has been gigantic since 1980 (especially compared to sports changes in the same time period )

Edited January 21, 2010 by BRASSO

[Plan9]

well we'll see how you feel when the rules proposal banning chairs comes out

True. But the ban won't say anything about Ottomans! Oops, I may have let it slip!

Actually, Hops 800-WAA-AAAAA rant simply draws a line in the astro turf (as if there aren't enough!). On one side is his philosophy that drum corps should seek to yank the fans out of their seats at every opportunity and design shows that have those guaranteed moments. Do whatever you must....If it means touching old memories, big loud musical attacks, frantic mind boggling drill and company fronts that go on forever...so be it. On the other hand there's the clever, Fosse, athletic, Cirque-type, dramatic, jazzy and unexpected designs that require a bit more viewing/listening and a little less head banging. Both have their place on the field, and sometimes within the same show.

To me it's about who's in the stands and their expectation. In some ways it's like Metallica opening for John Coltrane. There would be a sufficient amount of Metallica fans who would scatch their heads in bewilderment as to what the hell he was playing, but there would also be a great many who would be transported musically and emotionally. It's a matter of frame of reference and more importantly an unbiased listening/viewing. The judging community must be savvy enough to see through the fluff and find the substance, even if it's a quiet moment of "just right" dead air like Monk gave us or a flurry of near chaos like Hendrix or a John Mackey piece. I think the Finalists this year showed a wonderful balance of all these things and the activity is going in a extremely healthy direction...2010 is going to be cool.

NOTE: BTW, IMO Hop is remarkable, creative and his opinions matter. Just sayin'.

[perc2100]

You make some valid points here, I believe.

To follow your suggestion, if we asked " complete outsiders " to tell us if the unit from ( say ) 1980 was " a Drum and Bugle Corps " or a " Marching Band ", we might get an interesting reponse. Perhaps they'd not see the difference, but my hunch many would they'd be inclined to call the unit a " Drum and Bugle Corps " ( especially if the " complete outsider " was from the northeast, as most people had at least SOME knowledge of Drum and Bugle Corps as they were prevalent in most communities ). Fast forward next to ( say ) 2009, and ask the " complete outsider " to tell us if the unit was " a Drum and Bugle Corps " or " a Marching Band", and I think the response would be almost universal,... that these units are " Marching Bands ". So, from my perspective, the changes in the activity has been gigantic since 1980 (especially compared to sports changes in the same time period )

I have a feeling that the vast majority of "outsiders" have no clue what a drum corps is, and would refer any era of corps as a "marching band."

And yes, I've had this conversation with several outsiders in the past, and in my experience I've never heard any outsiders who knew what a drum and bugle corps is.

[supersop]

I have a feeling that the vast majority of "outsiders" have no clue what a drum corps is, and would refer any era of corps as a "marching band."

And yes, I've had this conversation with several outsiders in the past, and in my experience I've never heard any outsiders who knew what a drum and bugle corps was.

Fixed ... and I agree

[Canuck DCGroupie]

ah, thanks, no disrespect to them, many of the Canadian corps were pretty different...in the 80s there was far greater variety on the field so it’s hard for me to recall them all specifically – plus those missing brain cells

The missing brain cells are why you are wetting the bed!

[MikeD]

Yes, it is my opinion that the percussion line is overweighted in the music score( and also in the Visual captions) as it relates to Brass.

What do you mean by that? Not sure I follow.

Percussion has it's sheet for performance, as does brass. Both equal. ALL playing members are part of the ensemble sheet. ALL are part of Music Effect. All marching members are part of the visual captions.