MikeD Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 So it only matters if you win? Say what? I have no idea how you got THAT from what I said. I'm not the one who used a champion corps as somehow representative of the hundreds of small local corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Say what? I have no idea how you got THAT from what I said. I'm not the one who used a champion corps as somehow representative of the hundreds of small local corps. So if I had only picked Sword Excalibur as my first example instead, you would have seen the light and agreed with me 100%? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 (edited) It is interesting to note that amid the same set of societal/economic factors, and despite most of the aforementioned effects, the number of competing U.S. all-age corps was larger in 2009 than in 1972. Their demographics are younger, too, with many more DCI-eligible kids choosing the DCA option in recent years. Apparently, there is interest in drum corps outside of the full summer tour, perhaps even growing interest....it just isn't being directed solely to the DCI open-class model. Quick thread history... I disagreed with audiodbs' Senior corps numbers and he suggested I count. Info taken from srcorps.com. Explaination: DCA - number of corps at DCA Prelims RCA - number of corps at RCA (other Sr corps circuit) dups - number of corps that went to both total - unique corps each year (aka DCA + RCA - dups) RCA lasted 1969-1977 so included year before and after 1968 DCA (18) 1969 DCA (15) RCA (10) dups (4) total (21) 1970 DCA (15) RCA (13) dups (5) total (23) 1971 DCA (17) RCA (11) dups (3) total (25) 1972 DCA (15) RCA (14) dups (2) total (27) 1973 DCA (19) RCA (13) dups (6) total (26) 1974 DCA (15) RCA (13) dups (4) total (24) 1975 DCA (19) RCA (15) dups (6) total (28) 1976 DCA (17) RCA (10) dups (7) total (20) 1977 DCA (16) RCA (7) dups (3) total (20) 1978 DCA (15) RCA (7) dups (4) total (18) 1979 DCA (17) Off the top of my head notes: Only three of the corps were not from the northeast or Canada (MBI, Chicago Connection, Spirit/Boys of '76) so Senior/All-Age has fallen out of the Northeast but moved to other parts of the country. Corps then averaged a larger size, even the "lesser" corps in the bottom half of the RCA had horn lines of 35+ for the most part (that I saw). 1975 had the most but at least two of those corps (Blue Rock, Blessed Sac) were one year wonders and not sure about some of the RCA corps. Also 1975 had Phoenix (2 years) and Interstatesmen (2-3 years). The average age of the marchers is younger and the members are coming from a further distance than BITD. Plus my memory sucks as I thought the numbers were higher. The number of corps doing both RCA and DCA was higher than I thought. And I can't think of any corps that I saw BITD that was not listed somewhere for a given year. Edited February 2, 2010 by JimF-3rdBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Quick thread history... I disagreed with audiodbs' Senior corps numbers and he suggested I count. Info taken from srcorps.com.Explaination: DCA - number of corps at DCA Prelims RCA - number of corps at RCA (other Sr corps circuit) dups - number of corps that went to both total - unique corps each year (aka DCA + RCA - dups) RCA lasted 1969-1977 so included year before and after 1968 DCA (18) 1969 DCA (15) RCA (10) dups (4) total (21) 1970 DCA (15) RCA (13) dups (5) total (23) 1971 DCA (17) RCA (11) dups (3) total (25) 1972 DCA (15) RCA (14) dups (2) total (27) 1973 DCA (19) RCA (13) dups (6) total (26) 1974 DCA (15) RCA (13) dups (4) total (24) 1975 DCA (19) RCA (15) dups (6) total (28) 1976 DCA (17) RCA (10) dups (7) total (20) 1977 DCA (16) RCA (7) dups (3) total (20) 1978 DCA (15) RCA (7) dups (4) total (18) 1979 DCA (17) A couple of notes: 1. There were a few more senior units competing that didn't attend either DCA or RCA. For example, in 1972 you had Brass, Inc. (MN), Legion of Brass (FL) and Spirit of St. Louis (MO) at Legion Nationals, so there were 30 seniors competing that year. 2. My statement was that there were more U.S. all-age corps competing in 2009 than in 1972. Six Canadian corps are included in the 1972 count. Still, today's North American all-age activity tops that of 1974 and ties 1973 numbers. Of course, the point is that while everyone tries to explain why junior corps numbers have dropped and continue to do so, most of the standard excuses (society, birth rate, loss of vet/church support, etc.) fail to explain why the senior activity survived at all, much less with numbers roughly equal to those at the start of the DCI era. Whoa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobjacobs Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Of course, the point is that while everyone tries to explain why junior corps numbers have dropped and continue to do so, most of the standard excuses (society, birth rate, loss of vet/church support, etc.) fail to explain why the senior activity survived at all, much less with numbers roughly equal to those at the start of the DCI era. Whoa. If only there were solid demographic data spanning the generations. I think if you peeled away the top layer of the onion and looked inside, you'd see that the demographic composition of both the "senior" and "junior" corps activities have shifted. Therein, I believe, lies the survival story. Some of those demographics once served by junior corps are now served in the all-age realm. Some of those once served in senior corps are now engaged in the alumni movement as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 (edited) 1. There were a few more senior units competing that didn't attend either DCA or RCA. For example, in 1972 you had Brass, Inc. (MN), Legion of Brass (FL) and Spirit of St. Louis (MO) at Legion Nationals, so there were 30 seniors competing that year. Ahhh... didn't think to check AL scores for other Srs.... 2. My statement was that there were more U.S. all-age corps competing in 2009 than in 1972. Six Canadian corps are included in the 1972 count. Still, today's North American all-age activity tops that of 1974 and ties 1973 numbers. Eh ... when I think Sr corps from my era I always include the Canadians (too many fun memories). Never even noticed the US corps designation. Of course, the point is that while everyone tries to explain why junior corps numbers have dropped and continue to do so, most of the standard excuses (society, birth rate, loss of vet/church support, etc.) fail to explain why the senior activity survived at all, much less with numbers roughly equal to those at the start of the DCI era. Whoa. Hmmm.... have one idea that might or might not be on-topic. In the early 90s DCA went down to 13 corps at Prelims. From what I read the powers that be basically said "we gotta change our ways or die". Biggest change (IMO) that came out of that was to be more inclusive of the smaller corps with creation of Class A. Even bigger change that came later was to have top 3 or 4 Class A corps compete as part of Finals. Most growth in new (repeating NEW) corps since then have come from the Class A ranks with Renegades being only one I can think of that started as a larger corps. To recap: Senior/All-age/DCA corps numbers did go down in the early 90s but since have been on the rebound. IMNSHO - "How Now Rebound?" is the huge piece of the equation. Edited February 2, 2010 by JimF-3rdBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 If only there were solid demographic data spanning the generations. I think if you peeled away the top layer of the onion and looked inside, you'd see that the demographic composition of both the "senior" and "junior" corps activities have shifted. Therein, I believe, lies the survival story. Some of those demographics once served by junior corps are now served in the all-age realm. Some of those once served in senior corps are now engaged in the alumni movement as well. starting in the 70s, several all age corps had dci aged kids. it has grown as time has gone on, especially as DCI costs have risen...and also because there are fewer corps in DCI. I'd also say the lack of merketing for the Open Class Corps, by DCI and the corps themselves have helped DCA grow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatonecuban Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Unfortunatly the point will start becoming reality sooner or later. Remember we can still legally mic a section of players ( the lead in to woodwinds being heard) and the low ends that the synths trounced all over this last season will lead to the tuba section being disbanded. I hope not, but I wouldn't bet on it not happening. Where can I get my tin foil hat? :worthy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84skyrydr Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Where can I get my tin foil hat? :worthy: Same place you get a synth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobjacobs Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 I'd also say the lack of merketing for the Open Class Corps, .... I've read your writings on this in several different threads, spanning several years now... and I still don't have any idea of what you mean about "the lack of marketing for the Open Class corps." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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