The Challenge

[bobjacobs]

Or rather, fewer people capable of $tarting them as costs escalated.

I don't think there has been dramatically less interest in starting corps over the DCI era. What I've seen in the past 15 years is that for every startup that makes the field, there are a dozen more that don't. So it's not lack of interest.

Back in the day when dinosaurs roamed free, the percentage of startup attempts that actually made it to the field seemed to be considerably more than one-in-12.

I agree with you on this subject, and I think that perhaps it's worth taking a look inside the world of starting and successfully managing an Open Class corps (since that's the current path for a start-up to follow) in the next DCI Direct.

It's hard. It's VERY hard. If we knew 20 years ago, as a group of naive 25 year olds with a common passion and big dreams, all that it was going to require, I doubt we would have started a corps.

But forget about drum corps for a second, and replace all references above with the words "new business." That's the rub: most of my fellow dreamers don't really think about the fact that they are not merely giving birth to a drum corps, but are actually forming a corporation.

"I don't think there has been dramatically less interest in starting a new business enterprise over the DCI era. What I've seen in the past 15 years is that for every startup business that makes it, there are a dozen more that don't. So it's not lack of interest.

Back in the day when dinosaurs roamed free, the percentage of startup attempts that actually made it in the marketplace seemed to be considerably more than one-in-12."

Edited January 30, 2010 by bobjacobs

[perc2100]

I agree with you on this subject, and I think that perhaps it's worth taking a look inside the world of starting and successfully managing an Open Class corps (since that's the current path for a start-up to follow) in the next DCI Direct.

It's hard. It's VERY hard. If we knew 20 years ago, as a group of naive 25 year olds with a common passion and big dreams, all that it was going to require, I doubt we would have started a corps.

But forget about drum corps for a second, and replace all references above with the words "new business." That's the rub: most of my fellow dreamers don't really think about the fact that they are not merely giving birth to a drum corps, but are actually forming a corporation.

"I don't think there has been dramatically less interest in starting a new business enterprise over the DCI era. What I've seen in the past 15 years is that for every startup business that makes it, there are a dozen more that don't. So it's not lack of interest.

Back in the day when dinosaurs roamed free, the percentage of startup attempts that actually made it in the marketplace seemed to be considerably more than one-in-12."

I think that's 100% accurate (though I don't need to tell you that )

I haven't met a corps director yet who didn't have a passion for the activity, or the desire to teach young men and women life lessons through performance, or the joys of watching their young students perform before a crowd. It's undeniable that we all love that about drum corps.

However, I've met several corps directors who did not have a strong sense of running a business. Who had the best heart and the best intentions, but couldn't sustain the business aspect of their corps. I would bet most corps directors now-a-days have some sort of business education to augment their passion, where as that probably wasn't the case back in the early days of DCI

[denverjohn]

I'd settle for a non-themed show without synthesizers.

They were called:

"Juxtaposition"

&

"My Favorite Things"

It can be done.

[drumno5]

Funny how one person's trash can be another person's treasure. I have no problem with contemporary drum corps. The activity has evolved; it was inevitable. Today's groups are bigger/stronger/faster than we ever were back in the day, and the level of performance and artistry is fantastic, just astounding. But to my ears, kevlar heads sound like ### - like banging on the side of a fiberglass porta-potty.

Mylar, baby!

just my $.02 - peace to all,

Fred O.

Edited for filter circumvention? In the words of Marc Sylvester, you gotta be #######' me! How come the guy who said mylar heads sound like cr*p didn't get censored?

Fred O.

Edited January 30, 2010 by drumno5

[JimF-LowBari]

DCA is also something that I know relatively little about, especially it’s history, but I would surmise that the increase of all-age corps is due to the increase in participation level post-ageout in the past 30 years. That’s really just a guess though. The fact that they’re attracting younger members is indicative of either the laziness of youth (as all-age corps are generally perceived as being less physically strenuous than even top tiered Open Class units) or the poor marketing of Open Class that Jeff mentioned a few posts ago. I personally believe that marketing should be the onus of the OC corps themselves, although there are assuredly improvements DCI could make in this area as well.

My background is I marched in a Senior (aka DCA) corps from age 16-22 from 1974-1979. Same corps as Jeff but as the corps was rebuilding we had about 50% Junior corps age eligible membership. Main reason why these people marched Sr was becase they did not want a DCI tour to be their be-all and end-all for the summer. Feeling was Drum Corps was a big part of our lives but it was not important enough to control our entire summer. Let's just say the Weekend portion of the term "Weekend Warrior" (aka DCA) can be attractive, especially those who worked over the summer.

As for OC corps the nearest ones in my area currently are hours away with still would consume the summer of a young person.

In my experience it's not laziness, it's a choice the young people make on what is imprtant in their lives. We even have a few DCI elegible people in my Alumni corps (including one who marched Cadets in '09). They chose a parade/standstill group because it's a "good fit" in their lives. And "good fit" is the best way to describe why I did DCA for 6 years. Laziness no.... different priorities.. yes.

Edited January 30, 2010 by JimF-3rdBari

[audiodb]

Participating in a DCI show or two in a season is hardly placing them in DCI's 'influence'...their seasons were primarily built on the local shows in their areas.

Why - because you say so?

So to take an example, when St. Ignatius left Long Island to go to a DCI show....in Denver, CO....that was really no big deal for them at all?

How do you think the members of a corps like St. Ignatius define their experience? Because when I hear from them, it usually isn't about whatever local circuits they were involved in....no, it's the three straight DCI all-girl titles, seven World Open AG wins, the big showdown with Audubon....none of which happened in local circuit shows.

[audiodb]

I agree with you on this subject, and I think that perhaps it's worth taking a look inside the world of starting and successfully managing an Open Class corps (since that's the current path for a start-up to follow) in the next DCI Direct.

It's hard. It's VERY hard. If we knew 20 years ago, as a group of naive 25 year olds with a common passion and big dreams, all that it was going to require, I doubt we would have started a corps.

Interesting. It seems to me that DCI does a much better job of showing startup managers "what it takes" now vs. 15 years ago. (The evaluation process and the how-to book you were instrumental in compiling are two huge examples.) Do you think more startups quit sooner because they learn "what it takes" earlier in the process?

[bobjacobs]

Interesting. It seems to me that DCI does a much better job of showing startup managers "what it takes" now vs. 15 years ago. (The evaluation process and the how-to book you were instrumental in compiling are two huge examples.) Do you think more startups quit sooner because they learn "what it takes" earlier in the process?

I don't want to further derail the thread's original topic/intent... but I'll quickly say this in response to your question, and I admit in advance that I am generalizing, since there have been several successful startups in the past 20 years (since the Jersey Surf started): I think that the TYPICAL startups since I've been around – in general – don't have realistic expectations for what it takes to start and successfully sustain a corporation which combines a music education experience with all of the other attributes unique to each organization's mission and vision PLUS the demands of putting it on the road as a TOURING entity. The challenges are compounded exponentially by the fact that these businesses rely heavily on the support of volunteers (many of whom are not formally trained), require an insane commitment of time and personal resources on the part of everyone involved, and are managed with at least some portion of their focus to include having to COMPETE in a game against other corporations of disparate means.

Edited January 30, 2010 by bobjacobs

[MikeD]

Or rather, fewer people capable of $tarting them as costs escalated.

I don't think there has been dramatically less interest in starting corps over the DCI era. What I've seen in the past 15 years is that for every startup that makes the field, there are a dozen more that don't. So it's not lack of interest.

Back in the day when dinosaurs roamed free, the percentage of startup attempts that actually made it to the field seemed to be considerably more than one-in-12.

But..there were fewer and fewer startups as the existing corps failed. EXISTING corps wre having more and more trouble holding onto and attracting new members as the 70's progressed. So yes, it was a lack of interest, but you are also right...higher costs all around. Insurance...instruments...transportation...fuel costs...rehearsal space...the world was changing through the 70's and later, and for the little corps...that change was not a good thing.

I saw lots of GSC corps whither away and die between 75 and 80 when I was teaching and judging there. And..there were few new corps in the circuit during that same period. You had some merging to try and survive..I taught the Monarchs from Wayne who merged with the Greenwood Lake Lakers, for example. The merger was great for ONE year, 1977...but a couple of years later..they were gone. The GSC corps I marched with from Livingston, the Imperial Guardsmen, merged with the Dukes from Old Bridge.and became the DIGs for a year or so. I taught the Guardsmen in 76, but a couple of years later....gone.

[MikeD]

Why - because you say so?

So to take an example, when St. Ignatius left Long Island to go to a DCI show....in Denver, CO....that was really no big deal for them at all?

How do you think the members of a corps like St. Ignatius define their experience? Because when I hear from them, it usually isn't about whatever local circuits they were involved in....no, it's the three straight DCI all-girl titles, seven World Open AG wins, the big showdown with Audubon....none of which happened in local circuit shows.

You talk about ONE top-level corps? I'm talking about the large numbers of average-type local corps that went to a Big Show or two a season...relatively near by....or a short long weekend trip. NOT a top-level corps like that.

And yes...because I say so...I was there teaching and judging from the mid-70's to 1980 at the local level. It's what I saw and experienced first-hand.