The Challenge

[Slow Adam]

Any key brass is legal in DCA.

[perc2100]

Any key brass is legal in DCA.

Is any-key brass the norm? If so, how many DCA horn lines play on G horns?

[Schickmeister]

Have I taught you NOTHING? Perceived loudness (by humans) has nothing to do with decibel meters (mechanical measurement).

Believe it or not, if you put 10 people in front of a G line, and a Bb line, and have them decide which one is louder, it's entirely possible for them to perceive the G line as louder even if the decibel meter says otherwise! The answer lies in how the ear works. You'd have to pick a chord that seems to work well for both groups (Concert F Major would be perfect.) I'm telling you, the G line [esp low brass] will be perceived as louder, since concert F is one of the overtone series chords for G Bugles (1st Valve). If we pick a chord like D major, at least the lower brasses will be on the same overtone series between the G and Bb horns (The 3rd partial D; open for G, 12V for Bb), but the ease at which to produce a clear sound on the G Contras/Euphs (open!) vs Tubas/Euphs (12V) is noticeable. That "freedom" will be heard, and perceived as louder.

All of that assumes you have top notch talent in both sections. What has happened, predictably--and I've said it before--is that Bbs have leveled the playing field. More hornlines are excellent, and the super good ones are even better! Excellence has improved since the B-flats came out, that's obvious.

Speaking as someone who has played and taught both Bb and G lines, *I* certainly perceive the GOOD G Lines as louder than the GOOD Bb lines...until now. The 80 horns, with 20% Tubas are now starting to change my mind on that.

Well if you have taught me anything, it's that I can't even win an argument with you involved.

I just think that the G to Bb has had much less of an impact on the activity as far as sound production when compared to the change in brass philosophies. Regarding my world class experience, I feel that I went from a "new school" approach to an "old school" one...and in my opinion as a performer, the old school approach produced a louder product. Yes loud isn't everything, but speaking strictly about volume, that's what I got out of it.

[JimF-LowBari]

What would your definition of a "non-themed" show? You could argue that SCV played a non-themed show last year.

Check Class A corps in DCA. Govenaries (2009 Class A Champs) usually play a mix of pleasing music that I can't find a theme. Think one year their theme was "Get on the Bus". Think it was Chops, Inc who had a theme of "Surely We're Serious. And don't call us Shirley". Veru enjoyable shows whole way around.

[Bob J]

Regarding my world class experience, I feel that I went from a "new school" approach to an "old school" one...and in my opinion as a performer, the old school approach produced a louder product. Yes loud isn't everything, but speaking strictly about volume, that's what I got out of it.

As we used to say, "if you ain't loud, you ain't ####"

[Richard]

Leisure suits were never part of drum corps. Bad analogy.

He wasn't saying wear leisure suits in drum corps. Wear them to work, to the club and to the mall. There's a reason out-of-date things are no longer used: preference of those that decide what product they want to use. Everyone uses what they think is the best option (weighing costs and benefits of course). You don't wear leisure suits because your opinion is that they look bad. Corps don't use Gs because they're opinion is that a Bb line sounds better. I'm sure Disco Stu wants everyone to bring back the leisure suit too. After all, those were the good old days and people looked so much better.

Which is why drum corps is slowly dying.

Gotta have all the new junk to keep up with the big boys.

And need yet another semi to haul it around all summer. And more drivers to drive the semi...etc etc

The cost of the logistics is what will kill drum corps.

Question - how many vehicles were Cavvies using in mid 70's when you marched? I bet 3 busses, one cook/staff modified school bus, and one equipment truck.

How big is the fleet today?

Does anyone besides me recognize this as a tremendous fallacy? How is this a barrier for entry when we're talking about World Class? If your corps is financially stable enough for World Class (and good enough to challenge for a finals spot), then your organization should be able to budget for Bbs, Amps, Props, Trucks and whatever else. This hypothetical group didn't make top 12 overnight, they built up their programming and talent over the years, which is plenty of time to budget for these "requirements" to compete at the highest level. You can compete in Open Class without amps. You can compete in Open Class without Bbs even (although I imagine they're cheaper to come buy used than Gs are now-a-days). You can charter 1 or 2 busses and a box truck and make Open Class finals. Yes, the costs are much greater for the best corps, but part of the modern gig is being financially stable. Amps are not a barrier to entry into drum corps. They are not killing drum corps.

Oh, and Legends in Open Class doesn't own horns. I think they won most improved open class corps this year and they appear to be on an intelligent and stable path to success. Would they be as stable if they had to shell out the money for a set of Gs? Possibly, but it's an added expense that they were spared because of the "any key" rule. Gold also uses non-corps horns I believe (which is in part due to their affiliation with the Hawthorne school district). While they've recently run up against some political issues, they were a very competitive group in the west coast circuit who were able to reduce overhead expenses because of the any key brass rule.

[Schickmeister]

As we used to say, "if you ain't loud, you ain't ####"

Trust me. I agree.

[JimF-LowBari]

Does anyone besides me recognize this as a tremendous fallacy? How is this a barrier for entry when we're talking about World Class? If your corps is financially stable enough for World Class (and good enough to challenge for a finals spot), then your organization should be able to budget for Bbs, Amps, Props, Trucks and whatever else. This hypothetical group didn't make top 12 overnight, they built up their programming and talent over the years, which is plenty of time to budget for these "requirements" to compete at the highest level.

Possible to budget for it but harder and harder each year as expenses go up for things other than you mentioned. If something goes "Oh crap" for a corps financially for any reason having to pay for more and more stuff only makes survival harder. Each of the items you stated are a drop in the bucket compared to th etotal budget. But if you drop enough pebbles in that bucket, the bucket will eventally spill over (in this case in red ink).

[Jeff Ream]

Are MOST drum corps brass players performance majors expecting to land spots in major orchestras? No.

My memory of 2000 is that the Cadets especially had a weaker trumpet sound...and when I asked one of their staff about it he told me they were using standard off-the-shelf trumpets, not ones designed for marching band. The major horn companies have done a lot of work creating lines of Bb/F marching brass, used in both corps and band.

The idea that a 'rising tide lifts all ships' has worked for the entire marching music genre as companies have improved their products.

Hardly. The intent was to provide 15 more young people the chance to participate and to make better use of the 50+ seat busses being used by a lot of corps.

Mallet technique has been changing ever since the first year. I noticed it years ago. Not only technique, but mallet selection as well, to produce a better sound. That was mentioned the very first YEAR by one of the BD percussion staff.

As for the number of keys...they are playing different parts, not the same one, so yes, they will use more than a single instrument. I do that in the relatively little band I write for, even, at least with the marimba voice...I love the full sound of using two.

what I find is while some have adjusted heights and mallet selection, they usually compensate by cranking the volume louder...and not getting called out for it on the sheets

[Jeff Ream]

Not too much wiggle room in that statement. Can we quantify/verify it somehow?

Fred O.

go listen to people at drum corps shows. hear them talking about leisure suits?no

hear them talking about G brass? yes