JimF-LowBari Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 There was no "vote for G"....and that's where your case breaks down.Again, Bb/F came in as a result of the "any-key brass" change, a rule change sold on the principle of increasing the number of "options" available to competitive drum & bugle corps. Obviously, the number of "options" for key selection for a world-class competitive corps has not increased as a result....it remains at 1. DCI did not get what they voted for in 1999. The big selling points for Bb as I remember were: 1) Members were spending pre-season time "setting their ear" to the G sound. Because the season is getting shorter this was hindering their performance. 2) Resale value of Bb was so much better than G. 3) It would be easier for start up corps to be created since members could bring their own instruments from home. IMO - 1) Beats me - always had my G at home so never had a problem adjusting. 2) If they say so. *shrug* 3) Man that didn't work out for #### did it? Few years ago I heard that a corps or two was starting like this but don't remember the names or what happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraRich77 Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 As long as judging is done by human beings, it will ALWAYS be biased. That should not suggest in any way that bias equals crookedness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob J Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Just goes to show how naive/super talented (take your pick) I was back in the '80s, to be able to go from playing trombone in marching band, concert band, jazz band and orchestra in the off season, to playing 2V baritone or euphonium in the key of G... Yes it was different, but I don't think it was so hard. Reading the parts in treble cleff was probably the biggest challenge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 (edited) Just goes to show how naive/super talented (take your pick) I was back in the '80s, to be able to go from playing trombone in marching band, concert band, jazz band and orchestra in the off season, to playing 2V baritone or euphonium in the key of G...Yes it was different, but I don't think it was so hard. Reading the parts in treble cleff was probably the biggest challenge! LOL, glad I knew I was never going to have a career in music so I never gave it a second thought. Trombone on one side.... piston/rotor bari on the other.... yeah they're totally different so why the #### worry or even think about it. My biggest worry was learning fingerings until the 30ish guy next to me at my first practice handed me a pen and said: "Just mark the fingerings in and use them. #### that's how a lot of us learned. S'no big deal....". Edited January 28, 2010 by JimF-3rdBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 The big selling points for Bb as I remember were:1) Members were spending pre-season time "setting their ear" to the G sound. Because the season is getting shorter this was hindering their performance. 2) Resale value of Bb was so much better than G. 3) It would be easier for start up corps to be created since members could bring their own instruments from home. IMO - 1) Beats me - always had my G at home so never had a problem adjusting. 2) If they say so. *shrug* 3) Man that didn't work out for #### did it? Few years ago I heard that a corps or two was starting like this but don't remember the names or what happened. Your #3 cracks me up. Yes, looking at the number of startups since then, that concept didn't catch fire. One other talking point in favor of the change was the fear that two suppliers were not enough. At the time, only Dynasty and Kanstul were making G bugles, and questions were raised about whether one (or both) would stop making them. Never mind that both went on record committing to continue supplying G horns (and still do today). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Which manufacturer would that be Fred? Never played a Bb Bari but the few I've seen up close are pretty much like my G Kanstul. then again I have a G King 2v Bari that looks like a toy next to the Kanstul or the G Dynasty I used to play. We have had a bunch of Bach/Mercedes Bb baritones at the school where I teach for a number of years. They're significantly smaller than the Kanstul 3 valve G bugles we used when I was teaching corps back in the early 90's. Fred O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 (edited) We have had a bunch of Bach/Mercedes Bb baritones at the school where I teach for a number of years. They're significantly smaller than the Kanstul 3 valve G bugles we used when I was teaching corps back in the early 90's. Fred O. OK thanks, I was wondering.... The Bb marching bari I saw was from a VA High School and appeared to be a "lower end" horn (can't remember the manufacturer). LOL, the selling point was probably the number of years it would last. Young man playing it was just amazed how good my horn looked. Yeah when there is a two hour wait before a parade starts, you find things to kill time. In this case it was talk to the HS'ers and watch 'em wonder what MB I'm in. Edited January 28, 2010 by JimF-3rdBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 Your #3 cracks me up. Yes, looking at the number of startups since then, that concept didn't catch fire. Older I get the more I sound like my blue coller father... One other talking point in favor of the change was the fear that two suppliers were not enough. At the time, only Dynasty and Kanstul were making G bugles, and questions were raised about whether one (or both) would stop making them. Never mind that both went on record committing to continue supplying G horns (and still do today). And hopefully more manufacturers would lead to lower prices or better deals so that would make sense. And actually the aid to start up corps was the thing that got me less upset over the change. Wonder if this helped in the All-Age or Alumni world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumno5 Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 except, more people seem to prefer G than leisure suits. Not too much wiggle room in that statement. Can we quantify/verify it somehow? Fred O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 OK, I will state up front that I don't expect anyone to accept this challenge, so continue reading at your own expense!If it's true that certain instrumentation and equipment, and their use, is not mandatory, then someone should step up and accept this challenege to prove me wrong. Therefore I challenge any top-tier World or Open Class corps to play on G bugles, mylar heads, with no electronics or amplification, and a non-themed show design. Don't advertise it. Just do it. I'd really like to know if the judges and fans will discriminate against a corps for "not playing the game". If there is truly a level playing field, and "state of the art" is not mandatory, it shouldn't affect your scores. Should it? I guess I should extend a challenge to the judging community, too. If someone were to accept my challenge above, could you truly judge it on the merits without bringing your own biases and pre-concieved notions on the field? I mean, if they really brought it with an exceptionally performed show? Could you? OK, bring it! Garry in Vegas Better yet, challenge DCA corps. Aren't most of these still illegal in DCA (electronics for sure, any-key brass maybe)? What would your definition of a "non-themed" show? You could argue that SCV played a non-themed show last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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