Could the new pre-show rule lead to woodwinds?

[MikeD]

Says who? Appropriate playing technique is tied to the environment to which one has to play in. Right now the pit sounds completely un-natural to say the least, finger cymbals overpowering the horn line in soft areas of the show, etc. You don't see or hear any doubling..interesting.

I said 'a lot', and you said 'any'....I see mostly independent parts on each mallet instrument.

[euponitone]

I'm trying to determine the last time a DCI Corps Director from a prominent DCI Corps bemoaned the fact that in his observations of late, the DCI Corps have not been getting the positive responses from audiences that in previous decades the DCI Corps had received. He is perplexed with this, particularly given the fact that the overall talent is stronger, and staff have more instrumentation resources available to them.

But I'm frankly drawing a blank. I don't recall a Corps Director in any previous era puzzled by such questions of audience response to programming. Then again, perhaps others on here can point out examples of such utterances by Corps Directors before on how progamming by many of the DCI Corps appears to be generating tepid responses on the part of audiences compared to earlier eras.

You sure are making a lot out of an observation from a guy that puts (from what i've seen) most of his random thoughts out there for the world to see on his blog, on an almost continuous basis.... That blog post being almost ironic, and nearly disproving the point some want it to prove, in that his very corps was by most accounts one of the most fan friendly and accessable of the 2009 season, yet still not getting the wanted reaction....so what exactly does that mean??? Additionally, there was no such outlet comparable to blogging 30, 20, or really even 10 years ago, other than someone actually publishing a whole article about it, or bringing it up in an interview, which seems unlikely. So unless you find somebody that really was close to a corps director back then, I doubt your search will have much luck....

[Mello Dude]

I'm trying to determine the last time a DCI Corps Director from a prominent DCI Corps bemoaned the fact that in his observations of late, the DCI Corps have not been getting the positive responses from audiences that in previous decades the DCI Corps had received. He is perplexed with this, particularly given the fact that the overall talent is stronger, and staff have more instrumentation resources available to them.

But I'm frankly drawing a blank. I don't recall a Corps Director in any previous era puzzled by such questions of audience response to programming of the DCI Corps as a group. Then again, perhaps others on here can point out examples of such utterances by Corps Directors before on how progamming by many of the DCI Corps appears to be generating tepid responses on the part of audiences compared to earlier eras.

He is perplexed because he is stuck into the inside group that CAUSED this to be what it is. To fix ANY problem like this one, and the fact drum corps seems to be introverted to the extreme, you have to go to people who have not been to a drum corps show in years and have them sit through a show. THEN, see what they think..and LISTEN to what they have to say rather than poo-poo it because YOU think it's ok or it's JUST FINE as it is or, in the extreme cases explain to them why you are an expert and they have no idea what is good and what they like.

[jjeffeory]

No flame from me on this. I liked a few on this list above, but I understand your central point.

I've enjoyed some on the list, too. These are just a few MAJOR shows that have turned fans off of the activity. Well, those are some of the shows mentioned when the topic has come up.

I could have listed more, but I'm not trying to bash, just share an opinion I've stumbled across over the years...

[Mello Dude]

I said 'a lot', and you said 'any'....I see mostly independent parts on each mallet instrument.

Ok MikeD.....got it 10-12 separate parts.

[jjeffeory]

This notion that attendance fell off rapidly in the early 1990s solely as a result of programming choices is flimsy at best.

In the first place, it’s anecdotal. So far as we know, there was no scientific marketing study with conclusive data to support such a suggestion. But let’s not worry too much about that. It is reasonable that shifting trends in programming frustrated some fans to the point of staying home. Fine.

Who stayed home is the more important point. In any given crowd at any given DCI in the 80s, there would be family members of various corps in the seats among the others attending. We can agree on that, can’t we? Only as the 80s progress, the West Petchooch Pearpickers and a host of corps like it succumbed. No family members at the next DCI from there. And because the number of corps is shrinking, there are no complementary families to take their place. The same is true for friends of the members. And it’s true as well even for members, not all of whom from any era make drum corps a lifelong commitment.

Over the space of a decade, as hundreds of corps disappeared, hundreds and thousands of would-be fans did too. No doubt this phenomenon was true to an extent in prior eras too. Only it was mostly invisible because new corps arose and their families and friends arrived to obscure the losses.

Of course these weren’t the only empty seats. Some of the fans who survived even after their corps were extinct made the choice to stay home in the 1990s because they were frustrated by the programming. None of us think that was the first time that happened, do we? Many believe that’s happening today. And most reasonable minds would concede that even in the 70s and 80s, there were traditionalists who couldn’t grasp the genius of a Bobby Hoffman or a George Zingali. Some chose exile rather than accept the sideline entry or perceived slights against the American flag.

The difference by 1992 is there was no reservoir of replacements to offset the frustration migration. What wasn’t hardly noticeable in 1982 was obvious it seemed in 1992 though not because things had changed profoundly. It seemed obvious - even if the reality wasn’t - because the exit of the unhappy was more apparent than the entrance of the hopeful.

Vickers conclusion about discontent likely isn’t wrong. It’s just not the whole story. The drum corps community unraveled in the 80s long before amps and other such travesties. The unwelcome reverb would only be heard after.

HH

I think the rise of BOA and to a lesser extent WGI in popularity in the mid 80s replaced the corps lost we experienced and that community. Think about it, as more marching bands got better and better, there were less corps. As more indoor drumlines in WGI happened, we lost more corps. I'm not sure if it's correlation or causation, but all of this seems to happen in lock step. Just another piece to the puzzle, I guess.

[BRASSO]

You sure are making a lot out of an observation from a guy that puts (from what i've seen) most of his random thoughts out there for the world to see on his blog, on an almost continuous basis.... That blog post being almost ironic, and nearly disproving the point some want it to prove, in that his very corps was by most accounts one of the most fan friendly and accessable of the 2009 season, yet still not getting the wanted reaction....so what exactly does that mean??? Additionally, there was no such outlet comparable to blogging 30, 20, or really even 10 years ago, other than someone actually publishing a whole article about it, or bringing it up in an interview, which seems unlikely. So unless you find somebody that really was close to a corps director back then, I doubt your search will have much luck....

Hopkins was not referring specifically to the audience response to his Corps shows. Unless I'm mistaken, he was referring to the audience responses to all the DCI Corps in general of late. And surely you're not implying here that Hopkins really didn't mean what he said in his blog..... or are you ?

Edited February 26, 2010 by BRASSO

[BRASSO]

He is perplexed because he is stuck into the inside group that CAUSED this to be what it is. To fix ANY problem like this one, and the fact drum corps seems to be introverted to the extreme, you have to go to people who have not been to a drum corps show in years and have them sit through a show. THEN, see what they think..and LISTEN to what they have to say rather than poo-poo it because YOU think it's ok or it's JUST FINE as it is or, in the extreme cases explain to them why you are an expert and they have no idea what is good and what they like.

I think DCI received that sort of unbiased, objective evaluation on their programming appeal from ESPN, if I'm not mistaken. Like judging, maybe they didn't get the scores they felt they deserved. But they received the final score and the post show critique on their programming from the ESPN judges nonetheless.

Edited February 26, 2010 by BRASSO

[euponitone]

Hopkins was not referring specifically to the audience response to his Corps shows. Unless I'm mistaken, he was referring to the audience responses to all the DCI Corps in general of late. And surely you're not implying here that Hopkins really didn't mean what he said in his blog..... or are you ?

To the first question, i'm not sure, and I gave up on reading his mind a long time ago...however, one would assume that he is basing a large percentage of his opinions off of his corps, and the show that he saw every night, some 30 times or more, rather than a couple scattered views of other shows. As for the other statement...no i dont see where I implied that...merely that it may not carry the weight you want to give it.

Edited February 26, 2010 by euponitone

[BRASSO]

To the first question, i'm not sure, and I gave up on reading his mind a long time ago...however, one would assume that he is basing a large percentage of his opinions off of his corps, and the show that he saw every night, some 30 times or more, rather than a couple scattered views of other shows. As for the other statement...no i dont see where I implied that...merely that it may not carry the weight you want to give it.

I agree that we head into dangerous territory when we try and " read his mind ".

I simply took his comments in the clear, literal sense in which they were made.

George Hopkins words have weight. This is because he has influence. LOTS of influence within the DCI community. Thus, I am nowhere near as dismissive of his public comments as you seem to be. Which is of course your perogative to be dismissive of them as well as " not carrying the weight you ( I ) want to give them ".