Could the new pre-show rule lead to woodwinds?

[audiodb]

Summer bands from the 80s and 90s level of performance is pretty irrelevant to the discussion you're having. MikeD asserted that high school kids go to corps shows to see 'the best of the best'. You questioned whether he thought corps were better than bands. If we're talking about high school kids current options to see the highest level of the marching activity, then DCI is the only game in town.

Au contraire....those summer bands are very relevant to the discussion. They were drum corps' parallel universe for quite some time, but they faded while drum corps persevered. They demonstrate the folly of morphing DCI into a summer marching band circuit....the insanity of doing that same thing a second time, and expecting different results.

[MikeN]

Only if you assume the reason for their demise was solely the on-field product. As much as I don't want to see WW's in DCI, I don't know if that's something you could really prove.

Mike

[audiodb]

Only if you assume the reason for their demise was solely the on-field product. As much as I don't want to see WW's in DCI, I don't know if that's something you could really prove.

It was the only difference, though.

[Jeff Ream]

Hopkins has no more (or less) weight than you personally give him.

However, he is, indeed, the "lightning rod" for most of these changes, as he supports them so publicly . . . and that lets the other directors slink on by without notice.

If anything, Dave Gibbs from BD is probably at fault just as much for the changes over the past few years, if not more. Gibbs proposed any key, not Hop. He's also been on board with amps and electronics. Yet, no one ever brings him up in threads like these. Mark Arnold at BK is the same way with the same voting record, but no one ever makes any mention of him.

It takes a majority to pass this stuff . . .and it will all pass eventually. I have no doubt that twelve or thirteen people will decide that they know best and keep moving the yardstick until we reach the point where it becomes just another marching band circuit for a few designers and big names to make a few dollars in the summer.

However, let's not fool ourselves . . .Hop is at least brave enough to speak his mind, which is more than I can say for most corps directors and designers that hide behind him and vote "yes" anyway without having to explain themselves or their motivations for doing so.

So, if you have ire . . .point it towards the directors who decide to live in the ivory tower regarding their decision making process, use Hop as their shield, and get no blowback in the process.

That's a certain sort of cowardice in and of itself.

. . .maybe that should change. Require a director to issue a short statement for a "yes" (or "no") vote on a proposal. Interview them on "Field Pass" and hold their feet to the fire. Some sort of accountability for people not named "George Hopkins", 'cause at least he says what he means.

I won't hold my breath, though.

Keep hiding in the shadows, guys. Thanks a pantload.

great post

[Jeff Ream]

OK, what do you base your conclusions on? Knowing Steve Vickers background and long history I doubt very much if he'd base any major conclusions on "anecdotal" information. I was never that close to what was going on with the Jr corps scene and my main info source (Drum Corps News) had ceased publication by then.

Was trying to apply your theory of people staying home because their corps is defunct to DCA Weekend since I've attended the last few years. If that was true there would be a lot more empty seats based on the jackets I've seen and people I've talked to. Would also include all the people from the two corps I'm associated with as one went under in the 80s and one in the 90s.

wasnt there a survey done by DCI in the 90s that Steve published that expressed this view?

[JimF-LowBari]

wasnt there a survey done by DCI in the 90s that Steve published that expressed this view?

But wouldn't that have been done thru Drum Corps World?

And *gasp* we all know that it would have only represented a small portion of Drum Corps fans and so would not have been a TRUE representation of anything.

Especially if it went against pre-conceived notions.....

[MikeN]

It was the only difference, though.

Except DCI these days has 22 nationally-recognized corps without geographical recruiting barriers and a 7-million dollar per year touring campaign behind them. That's what I was getting at. I admit I know nothing about a former summer marching band circuit - how many groups were there? Where did they perform?

(And just to make sure there's no misunderstanding my tone, I'm not being snarky - truly wondering what it was all about! )

Mike

[MikeD]

That description is quite different from "required", as you said earlier.

Using better mallets and technique does require miccing. Harder mallets and a 'heavier hand' ARE how they got around the lack of amps pre-2004.

Why have two 2nd trumpets play the same part for the whole show? Why have two snare drummers play the same part? We could have a more complex show if each of the 150 performers did something different the whole time. But no, this is drum corps. Part of the appeal of drum corps is the challenge of getting multiple people to perform the same part in unison, the effect generated when that is achieved, and the degree of excellence that these groups can attain.

OK, so you'd rather see two vibes or marimbas play the exact same part? If that's your preference, you are entitled to it. I would never write that way, even for the band I write for, and I'd prefer to hear a show with more creativity and musical interest than unison playing for the entire show by two marimba players. but...we each like what we like.

[MikeD]

And you aren't saying that WW would attract more kids to shows, either.

IMO the sum total of what makes DCI World Class the best will continue to attract people, and adding WW is another step along the way for DCI to focus its efforts on those people who are the target audience. It's not going to happen any time soon, so its all academic anyway.

[MikeD]

Sorry - I came in late on this thread, but I have to agree with Mike here - World Class corps (72% college age kids, 56% of those being music majors) with 12+ hour rehearsal days I think pretty much automatically trump even the good HS bands.

However...

That said, there's not a lot of room in WC for HS kids to begin with. Consider that if *every* corps was filled to the max -

150 kids x 22 corps - 3300 potential performers

72-person hornline = 48% of the corps

28% of HS kids of a 72 man hornline = 20.2 (call it 21)

21 kids per corps x 22 corps = 462 HS kids in WC hornlines

So we'd potentially be adding woodwinds "to help attract HS kids" to fight for one of 462 spots, of which you have to include horn players as well? So say there was a 60/40 split between brass and woodwinds. We'd be opening spots for 185 HS woodwind players across all of WC.

Mike

Thanks for the first support!

I think if they ever did add WW as a marching section, the upper limits would have to expand at least another bus...up to 200, for instance. Plus, the idea of attracting band kids is as much as audience as it is for members.