mk4u2nv Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 (edited) I think the judges should read the post we have all left for the world to see. But i think when it comes down to it they don't care for the sport as much as we all do. Some times egos and politics come in to play just look what happened in IA. How do you fall so much from prelims to finals it don't happen. With two great runs. I was there and Express got robbed. They also for many years talk about consistency. Maybe they should take a look at there consistency with numbers. Edited February 23, 2010 by mk4u2nv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsthnds Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 I think the judges should read the post we have all left for the world to see. But i think when it comes down to it they don't care for the sport as much as we all do. Some times egos and politics come in to play just look what happened in IA. How do you fall so much from prelims to finals it don't happen. With two great runs. I was there and Express got robbed. They also for many years talk about consistency. Maybe they should take a look at there consistency with numbers. The problem here is not the judges or their scores. THE PROBLEM IS W.G.I.'S ELEATIST ATTITUDE! The paying customers go to a show to see these young performers who have been working at perfecting their shows for months and to have WGI DENY the perfomers and paying ticket holders the opportunity to view these perfomances that were listed as competing at the regional is a slap in the face of the performers and their fans. The wgi regional finals schedule times lists times for All Competing World Class Units and nowhere does it state the units must meet a minimum score. I know that in wgi percussion regionals, all world class units compete in finals regardless of their pre-lim score and the same practice should hold true for the color guard side of wgi. The fans come to see all the performers not just the privledged few. Also, if 65 is a magic number needed to perform in a regional final how come A and Open Cless units preform in finals if their prelim score was lower than 65? If you look I believe all Open class units automatically compete in regional finals. Other than A Class why bother having a prelim show. Just let EVERYONE in Open and World perform only in finals then people get to see all the performances and it may well make the shows more affordable and you never know, more people may actually go to the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPINCYCLE Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 The problem here is not the judges or their scores. THE PROBLEM IS W.G.I.'S ELEATIST ATTITUDE! The paying customers go to a show to see these young performers who have been working at perfecting their shows for months and to have WGI DENY the perfomers and paying ticket holders the opportunity to view these perfomances that were listed as competing at the regional is a slap in the face of the performers and their fans. The wgi regional finals schedule times lists times for All Competing World Class Units and nowhere does it state the units must meet a minimum score. I know that in wgi percussion regionals, all world class units compete in finals regardless of their pre-lim score and the same practice should hold true for the color guard side of wgi. The fans come to see all the performers not just the privledged few. Also, if 65 is a magic number needed to perform in a regional final how come A and Open Cless units preform in finals if their prelim score was lower than 65? If you look I believe all Open class units automatically compete in regional finals. Other than A Class why bother having a prelim show. Just let EVERYONE in Open and World perform only in finals then people get to see all the performances and it may well make the shows more affordable and you never know, more people may actually go to the show. [/quot Not sure if I totally understand what you are saying and by no means are trying to challenge but if everyone would be allowed to be in a finals doesnt that defeat the reason for a prelims? If someone wants to view all performances you go to prelims. As far as the ELEITE as you put it ,isnt that like in all sports? Only the best of the best make it to a finals. Now if you want to debate who the best of the best is thats another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guard politician Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 I think the judges should read the post we have all left for the world to see. But i think when it comes down to it they don't care for the sport as much as we all do. Some times egos and politics come in to play just look what happened in IA. How do you fall so much from prelims to finals it don't happen. With two great runs. I was there and Express got robbed. They also for many years talk about consistency. Maybe they should take a look at there consistency with numbers. I was just questioning this in another forum...and as you say " two great runs" you must be meaning prelims and finals. I feel, if that is the case than you can only ask WGI. I noticed this on the WGI website Saturday afternoon. If i am correct you are talking about the Rochester Regional IA Class. Express from Jamestown was at a 3.6pt first place lead and ended up in Finals in Second to Delazure. Not to take anything from Delazure...this should of not happened...AT ALL. And you are absolutely right judges should be consistant as well. Not much should change in a one day regional. The only question is who sees this and who will get the answers this guard (E From J) deserves. I have been active within winter guard as an adjudicator and as well as a performer and I have never witnessed this before. I assume by your haste that you are a parent of a performer and I know you are upset, but you can't always assume the worst of the activity because of a few bad decisions that are decided against your groups. But, My Friend I couldn't agree with you more. I am looking forward to seeing this show on Fan Network to see if this is a valid point. Best of luck to you and I hope this might give you some insight as to what others see, and it hasn't gone unnoticed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Denzer Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 If scores were always consistant from prelims to finals it would be considered slotting.....in my opinion judges should score based on the performance in finals and not based on the score in prelims or at a previous show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niko Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 If scores were always consistant from prelims to finals it would be considered slotting.....in my opinion judges should score based on the performance in finals and not based on the score in prelims or at a previous show. This guard, express had two identical performances at Rochester. Unfortunately you will only see finals. If another guard is to pass them because the did not do their best in Prelims that is fine...but to not be consistent in scores when the students were consistent in performance?? Shame on WGI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guardrocks101 Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 WOW, I didn’t realize that happened to Express from Jamestown. Clearly there was an issue with the numbers some judges decided to give out in finals. Take a look at the recap and compare the numbers between prelims and finals and you will see why it happened. As nice as the "idea" of having a regional back in upstate NY was, it certainly was terrible what happened to some of the area groups. I say let the regional go someplace else especially after what happened to the host. Wouldn’t it be nice to have another governing organization that is not WGI? USSBA expand....get on that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guard politician Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 WOW, I didn’t realize that happened to Express from Jamestown. Clearly there was an issue with the numbers some judges decided to give out in finals. Take a look at the recap and compare the numbers between prelims and finals and you will see why it happened. As nice as the "idea" of having a regional back in upstate NY was, it certainly was terrible what happened to some of the area groups. say let the regional go someplace else especially after what happened to the host. Wouldn’t it be nice to have another governing organization that is not WGI? USSBA expand....get on that! I just looked at the recap and it is apparant that it was one judge (that shall go nameless) affected this guard. Nevertheless, the scoring was inconsistant throughout this entire regional. I didn't know that also in that same IA class two guards scores from previous regionals (Trumbull and Troy ) had dropped. I also did my research within Guard Buzz.com and noticed these guards rankings have been affected. I will send a message to Kyle from guard buzz and see if he can get this rectified. I know judging is not based by this site but it also gives guards a place to go to find out where they rank amongst their competition and it is also apparant based on history it is somewhat accurate. But don't worry ( Express from Jamestown) I am with you all the way. Did catch your show on Fan Network from Pittsburgh regional last year and all I can say is wow...this is not the first time your guard as not gotten what it has deserved. I see they finished 5th. Shame on WGI is right as NIKO says. If anybody gets a chance, check this out from last years regional archives....you will be scratching your head as much as I have the past 3 days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATXguard Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 Prelims = Get the guards into finals who deserve to be there, based on relationship to other guards in the class Finals = Make sure the guards that made it are in proper order based on criteria. BTW-- looking at the recaps isn't a real indication of how a judge influenced (or didn't) influence a contest. The mathematical process behind combining the captions into final scores is more complex than finding an average from all the scores (at least, based on what I've been told after talking to show coordinators and tabulators, never tried to test the theory myself). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tay Posted February 23, 2010 Share Posted February 23, 2010 (edited) WOW, I didn’t realize that happened to Express from Jamestown. Clearly there was an issue with the numbers some judges decided to give out in finals. Take a look at the recap and compare the numbers between prelims and finals and you will see why it happened. As nice as the "idea" of having a regional back in upstate NY was, it certainly was terrible what happened to some of the area groups. I say let the regional go someplace else especially after what happened to the host. Wouldn’t it be nice to have another governing organization that is not WGI? USSBA expand....get on that! I would like to say, as a GC member, that I don't think that because of some bad luck that the regional should never come back to Rochester. I always believe in second chances and I don't see why not a future host guard get that chance to make finals at their home show. I didn't get that opportunity but I surely hope a future GC member does! Most people said my school was well organized and a great place to host a regional. I just hope it stays in the WGI Regional system because of its potential. Edited February 23, 2010 by Tay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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