Original Source of Tempo - What's the best approach?

[wilme861]

Well I've marched for about 45 min to an hour before with the sun directly behind the drum major making it almost impossible to see him before...and we made it through really well actually and this was HS. This might be the drummer in me but you are acting as if losing a drum major would just create havoc throughout the ensemble. Hell as a drumline, we spent most of our time without a drum major in front of us and we obviously did pretty well. I would hope that our brass could do the same. If you would have asked me that question before my last finals, I would have bet you any amount of money that we could do it! I had faith in every single one of those people out on the field with me.

I completely agree that crown would have been able to play through their ballad without a conductor. After practicing your show for over 2 months straight practically all day every day, that show becomes ingrained in your head so much that you could perform it a year later and still march it pretty well (know from experience).

[nemesiscorps]

whoa, now -- i didn't say the conductor was "not needed," i said that the corps would have "been fine" without a conductor. it would certainly be easier with a conductor, but definitely not impossible without one. every member of the entire corps learns things about how the timing is supposed to "feel" when everything is locked in. there is no reason why they couldn't apply this to a ballad.

if a corps rehearses anything enough, the conductor is hardly even necessary -- even things that seem very difficult. and yes, the drum major is largely irrelevant in most parts of the show by the end of the year. in fact, there are probably times when literally zero people are watching him or her conduct. (in this system, that is -- certainly not in an "always watch" system like star employed.)

well, the last encore in garfield 87 is about as close as you will get, i guess. not really a ballad, per se, but definitely not easy sans waving arms.

Sorry, I was interpreting the "would have been fine without a conductor" comment to mean that the corps would have been fine without a conductor (i.e. conductor not necessary, needed, etc.), sort of how I interpret your above followup statement: "... the conductor is hardly even necessary," to mean not necessary, needed, etc.

Anyway, I do agree with you, any group that rehearses something enough times [properly] can achieve incredible things and not have to rely on a conductor (i.e. winter guards, brass quintets, etc.), but I suspect that to accomplish that, they would also have to routinely rehearse without a conductor. Realistically though, there are clearly very few examples of this being done successfully on a football field (honorable mention to a few of the early 90's Americanos corps).

So, I'm coming to a somewhat early conclusion that some (perhaps most) of the comments shared so far seem to be looking at this issue from what I'll call a "backwards perspective," meaning focusing on a corps' final, end-of-season product where they've already worked through their timing problems, along with rehearsal repetition (in most cases with a metronome, intent upon ingraining a pulse in the members). On the surface, that sounds logical (look at what such and such corps accomplished by using a particular approach), but does the backwards perspective really address the heart of the original question, which is more focused on [fundamentally and generally] how does a marching ensemble first address their timing/tempo issues to achieve the final product? What approach do most corps start with, before they begin making adjustments (delegating control of original source of tempo) to address timing issues? It's my understanding that Star dealt with this first and foremost in the design phase, and could therefore rely almost solely on a "watch the DM's hands" philosophy and approach.

For the audible source proponents, here's a few things to consider:

1. What if your percussion section is a weak segment of your ensemble? (i.e. Do corps with incredibly solid drum lines generally rely on them for tempo control more so than a corps with a weaker section?) I'm wondering if the audible source proponents are mostly percussionists?

2. I'm a horn player, and try as I may, I can barely even hear the battery section during a show, simply due to the physical demands of marching and playing my horn. My personal ability to focus in on a moving, often distant battery section is quite limited, especially while I'm huffing and puffing my way through a show, trying to hear myself playing in tune with a bunch of other brass players that I'm marching next to. Am I the only one here that can't pick out a dominant, consistent pulse from the battery, especially with all of the polyrhythmic percussion licks that are routinely being thrown down these days? I'm wondering if visual source proponents are mostly brass players?

3. How has the DM position survived all these decades in our activity if they are truly "hardly even necessary" anymore? By now wouldn't they have gone the way of the Judge's Timing Pistol, "G" bugles, and high marking time through your entire show? Are DM's more partial to audible or visual original sources for tempo?

4. Why do we use "Dr. Beat" during rehearsals anyway? To take the place of the DM? To take the place of the battery? Understand, by all means, I'm a proponent of "Dr. Beat," but what's the answer to that question? What does "Dr. Beat" give us that we can't get from a DM or battery section? Was Dr. Beat in the color guard?

[BRASSO]

Well I've marched for about 45 min to an hour before with the sun directly behind the drum major making it almost impossible to see him before...and we made it through really well actually and this was HS. This might be the drummer in me but you are acting as if losing a drum major would just create havoc throughout the ensemble. Hell as a drumline, we spent most of our time without a drum major in front of us and we obviously did pretty well. I would hope that our brass could do the same. If you would have asked me that question before my last finals, I would have bet you any amount of money that we could do it! I had faith in every single one of those people out on the field with me.

I completely agree that crown would have been able to play through their ballad without a conductor. After practicing your show for over 2 months straight practically all day every day, that show becomes ingrained in your head so much that you could perform it a year later and still march it pretty well (know from experience).

Just for the heck of it, I went over to Fan Network and listened to Carolina Crown in their 2008 field performance and listened to them play " Claire de Lune " ( 40th percentile mark ). I kept an open mind as best I could on this, and asked myself if Crown could have properly played this piece I listened too without benefit of a DM on Finals Night, and not suffer attack, release, uniformity playing, tempo issues, starts, stop issues, etc that the judges wouldn't have picked them apart on.

I gotta tell you. I think Crown could get through the piece ( battery I thought would help them immensely in the beginning tempo issues in the first half of the ballad ), but they'd suffer from the point in the 2nd half of the ballad, through to the end and then to the dramatic tempo changes ( from Lento velocita to vivacissimo velocita ) into the next musical stanza after the ballad. They'd lose the tempo right there, and it would all fall apart for them right there with a major tear, cross tempo, or some such in this small segment of the show alone without a DM, imo. Sorry, but that's just my opinion here. I did try to be open minded on it. I tried ( haha). Maybe others that are so inclined, could go listen to Crown's 2008 " Claire de Lune " on Fan Network with the DM conducting... then play it again and try and envision the piece being played without a DM conducting. Maybe their opinion might change on how difficult it would be to play this ballad ( any ballad ) without benefit of a DM, particularly near the end where the tempo changes and transitions into the next segment after the ballad.... On the other hand perhaps they might come away thinking that without a DM the ballad would not be compromised and suffer in it's execution... with no negative impact on the judges scoring becoming the result. Who knows what would happen. But I think Crown would have gotten buried on the sheets without a DM compared to the other 11 who went out with DM's. ( again, not to prop up DM's here either )

Edited May 3, 2010 by BRASSO

[crazymello]

I will concede that our battery was the strongest section and that is why we derived our tempo from them.

[wilme861]

...I'm wondering if the audible source proponents are mostly percussionists?...

That's what got my vote. Personally, it's what we did in corps and i thought listening into the center snare worked a hell of a lot better than watching the drum major...

[bluecoats88]

the pulse center will move throughout the corps as the show progresses. I good instructional crew will make sure everyone is using the same pulse center during all segments of the show. If that be the DM, or the Bass Line, or the contra's then so be it.

[CitBos]

Didn't the Raiders from NJ recently (like... last 5 years) do extremely well without a drum major?

someone help me out here...

Yes, you are correct. It was either 2005 or 2006 that they did NOT have a drum major at all by tour, and they actually won that year, too.

Just goes to show, I guess, that a drum major really isn't needed...

[84BDsop]

Yes, you are correct. It was either 2005 or 2006 that they did NOT have a drum major at all by tour, and they actually won that year, too.

Just goes to show, I guess, that a drum major really isn't needed...

There's a significant difference between a Div III corps and program and a Div I, tho.

[hotbeats645]

the way I would do it (and what do i know ) is the drum major watches the center snare or center tenor when they are moving and conducts with their feet.

and when they aren't moving, all hell breaks loose

[BX5CM]

WOW, I think we just figured out where half the phasing problems in drum corps come from. It's very important to know which you should do in any given circumstance and to have the CORRECT information. Typically if the majority of the corps is in the "power zone" (between or in front of the hashes, and between the 30's) it's safe to listen back to whomever is furthest backfield. However if you are outside of that zone, typically you will only want to watch. Also, at least once a year I witness a group that has members in a part of the field where there is no way anyone could see a DM or locate a pulse-center by listening due to their location. This creates a no-win situation where the members have no one to watch, and no one to listen to, therefore feet and/or music are out of time. This happens much more often in the marching band world however it's not unheard of in corps.