Corps loyalty

[Bob984]

Corps loyalty............

I was a bit alarmed to hear the audio survey results that DCI did.....it indicated that in some top contenders, 30% of their corps had marched in OTHER DCI FINALIST CORPS. Obviously, corps loyalty is not at strong as it used to be, and some kids will use one world class corps to get experience, and then will try out and make a higher ranked/contending corps a year or a few years later. The practice is not new, but the percentage is growing substantially. Some would propose making a rule or making a kid have to sit out a year (not unlike the NCAA) before jumping ship. However, do we really want someone to stay where they don't want to be?

In the "old days", vets would go out and recruit, and also try to set examples and assist new members.....thus doing everything they could to not only help the corps maintain their level, but to help them to aspire to higher levels. My 2nd year (in a finalist corps) , I could have made any corps in the country, but I wouldn't have even thought about marching elsewhere.

I think learning the traits of dedication and loyalty are more important than winning, but it is obvious that an increasing percentage of members do not see it that way and are far more "me" oriented, which I find a bit sad.

GB

[Room_101]

I think there is a lot to be said about corps loyalty, yes.

However, I chose to leave my first corps because of major personality conflicts between other members, and in fact with the corps itself. My personality did not fit with their overall mentality, so I went to one that did fit.

I don't think my choices were "me" oriented at all. It created better experiences for not only myself, but for both corps that I was involved with. I see no harm in that.

And, to be honest, I have no problem with anyone switching corps. To each his own! I've known people that left a corps for a corps that scored LOWER the year before! It's all about which one fits you best, I think.

Edited June 16, 2010 by Room_101

[Walter]

I marched 10 years in the same organization !!!!

DUTCH BOY !!!!

[wesleyrp]

I marched 10 years in the same organization !!!!

DUTCH BOY !!!!

That's truly awesome!! Well Done!!

I wrote a lengthy post about the direction of DCI and this (corps loyalty) was one of my main points. The Big Kahuna G7 type corps don't need to worry too much about recruiting the younger high school crowd because they're getting the members that are trained 2-3 years in the finalist corps. I use my own corps for proof of that. The most successful years the Blue Knights have had are from years where the general membership came back time and time again. From '96-'00 BK retained the kids that may have been 13-14 yrs old starting out when they first marched, but by '00 were 18-20. It's no secret that they got to the top 6 by gaining consistency and trust during those years of loyalty. It's harder for the finalist corps to keep that these days. Too often the top talent in those corps (finalists) sees more value in getting a title than developing a corps into a tier 1 group. Loyalty played a big part in the rise of the Bluecoats and Crown until recruiting and consistency improved and are great examples of maintaining membership. Those are awesome examples of how keeping the members coming back equates to success, but those are only two corps. Too often the mid level top 12 corps are being torn apart and are forced to start over each year. I believe that some of the top corps have age minimum restrictions of 17-18 yrs old. If the other finalist corps tried to use this practice they'd not be able to field a corps. I think some of the best teaching goes on in the corps that are not in the top 6, because they're having to start with young rookie talent each summer and in many cases lose those same students after a year or two. Some might say "Stop whining, (and I'm not) if your corps was better those kids would want to stay." That may be somewhat true, but it's awful hard to build any consistency when year in and out you're replacing 50% or more of your membership. It's a mindset and I don't think there is a way to fix it, so in the mean time we'll just have to keep on recruiting and motivate students to stay true to each other and their team and work to build and maintain a special corps together!

Wes Perkins

BK '97 '98

[Bob984]

I think there is a lot to be said about corps loyalty, yes.

However, I chose to leave my first corps because of major personality conflicts between other members, and in fact with the corps itself. My personality did not fit with their overall mentality, so I went to one that did fit.

I don't think my choices were "me" oriented at all. It created better experiences for not only myself, but for both corps that I was involved with. I see no harm in that.

And, to be honest, I have no problem with anyone switching corps. To each his own! I've known people that left a corps for a corps that scored LOWER the year before! It's all about which one fits you best, I think.

Your case is exactly why I don't think there should be any rules regarding this....if someone is treated badly or they do not feel welcome or at home with a corps, that is certainly good reason to not stay after a season. My problem is that there are kids who leave solely to "win", and I do think that is "me" oriented, and that is increasing at a substantial rate.....

GB

[dbc03]

Why is it wrong for someone to have a goal of winning and doing what is necessary to achieve that goal?

Should a kid give up on his dream of marching with a certain corps because he happened to march a different corps first? Is that the message of drum corps? If at first you don't succeed you are stuck forever with your second choice?

[doylejd]

I think that some of the top finalist corps are encouraging the problem here. I had a good friend audition for a top 12 corps this year, and his hands are some of the best I have ever seen. During the group's December camp he was told that his was a great player, but they weren't going to roll the dice on someone who hasn't marched before. He was then told to go march at a lower rung World Class corps and to return to audition for the top 12 group next year.

So now, he is doing just that, marching at another World Class group with no intention of returning the next year just because he wants to march in that Top 12 line.

[KAW]

Today sometimes the loyalty resides not with the corps itself, but with the staff. When a kid develops a close relationship with a particular staff (which is common), the loyalty is to the staff not necessarily the corps. Sometimes its not the kids who lack loyalty, but the staff.

I have personal experience with a kid moving to a different corps due to staff changes (actually a significant step down in placement) and having it turn out to be a bad experience overall. But we joke about it even to this day.

One particular corps who purports to symbolize loyalty is struggling particularly with staff loyalty this year versus last year (so I'm told).

Has anyone ever documented color guard staff loyalty? sheesh.

So don't always think a kid is moving due to "corps" loyalty.

[dbc03]

I think that some of the top finalist corps are encouraging the problem here. I had a good friend audition for a top 12 corps this year, and his hands are some of the best I have ever seen. During the group's December camp he was told that his was a great player, but they weren't going to roll the dice on someone who hasn't marched before. He was then told to go march at a lower rung World Class corps and to return to audition for the top 12 group next year.

So now, he is doing just that, marching at another World Class group with no intention of returning the next year just because he wants to march in that Top 12 line.

and yet people on DCP constantly complain that more staffs aren't doing this, and then turn around and complain when kids march somewhere for experience before moving on to their dream corps

[Room_101]

Why is it wrong for someone to have a goal of winning and doing what is necessary to achieve that goal?

Should a kid give up on his dream of marching with a certain corps because he happened to march a different corps first? Is that the message of drum corps? If at first you don't succeed you are stuck forever with your second choice?

I've just never been a fan of this "whatever it takes to win" mentality. Sure, everyone likes to win. In this activity, though, it's not your decision! You can do whatever is necessary to be good enough to win, yes. But you cannot ever assure your own victory. Your life is in the judge's hands.

If members choose to do that, then more power to them. It's just not my moral standard.