Isn't It Time to Revamp the Judging System?

[crfrey71]

I have been thinking that it's been quite a long time since we have had a major change in the judging system, as set forth by DCI. I am thinking it is time to change, revamp, alter how a drum corps show is judged these days.

Why? Well, the activity has really changed since the last time it was drastically changed, which was '83-'84? There was also years later when the M&M caption was change to visual, which basically gave equal weight to visual and music. Those are the two major changes I remember off the top of my head. These changes were basically made to keep up with where the activity was heading. Obviously, the drum corps activity has changed drastically again since the early 90's and I feel it's time to tweak the current system again. I feel now with the corps in the top 12 so competitive and even beyond, there needs to be changes made to better clarify who the best corps really are. I am interested in folks feel the same and if so, what changes you would all make, as well. I am brainstorming, so some of these may seem a bit far-fetched. Bare with me.

Here are some of my suggestions:

1. Why are drum corps shows judged 3 different ways during the summer? It makes no sense. We start out with a slimmed down 5 judge panel. Then we enter the 8 judge panel, for most of July. Then, during championships, we have the double panel judging system. Pick one system and stick with it. The double panel I am totally against. For example, does baseball have 2 home plate umpires to call balls and strikes during the World Series? Does Figure skating double up their panels?

2. I feel there needs to be some form of a modified or "new age""tic" system brought back into the activity. With the corps so close and more difficult for the judges to score (leaving room, for example), I feel there needs to be more of a straight forward system, that is much clearer and not so much dependent solely on opinion (yes, there is always opinion, and that is why there are judges). The design of the shows, to say the least, has progressed incredibly far, that we can now bring the "tic" back (in not the same exact form), without having to worry about the shows becoming safer, from a design standpoint or watered down. There needs to be more risk vs. reward. Sort of like figure skating, that would be a good place to start.

3. How should we choose a winner of championships? In other words, why are caption awards tallied over the 3 days of championships, while the actual winning corps is only tallied on finals night? Be consistent and choose one way all the same or the other way. Now say you are in support of the double panels for championships. Wouldn't it be just about the same if we eliminated the double panels and choose the champions just like the captions (on a 3-night aggregate)?

4. Should we change how points are weighted in the scoring captions? I feel there are too many points in the GE caption and that it should break down to more of a 30-35-35 or 30-30-40 system. GE is the most subjective caption and is also the prime example used by George Hopkins to bring in the double panel judging panel. I feel performance and technical should have the most weight.

Anyways, these are some I have come up with. Please be constructive and reasonable and courteous when responding (Yes. I know this is DCP and that is asking a lot). Look forward to seeing your opinions.

[geluf]

The 5 judge panel is strictly a cost-cutting measure.

As for the tic system, it would be nearly impossible to introduce a "tic" system form without corps pulling back almost instantly. You claim they wouldn't resort to "safe" shows, but you don't clarify why they wouldn't do that.

In my opinion, that is *exactly* what they would do.

[crfrey71]

The 5 judge panel is strictly a cost-cutting measure.

As for the tic system, it would be nearly impossible to introduce a "tic" system form without corps pulling back almost instantly. You claim they wouldn't resort to "safe" shows, but you don't clarify why they wouldn't do that.

In my opinion, that is *exactly* what they would do.

I did mention there needs to be the risk vs. reward concept. That would prevent watered-down show designs. Just like in figure skating, if you don't have a program that has as much risk, you will not score as high as someone else with a higher risk program.

I do not buy into the cost-cutting reason for the 5 judging panel. I know that is the reason that was given. But, why are we still flying judges across the country during the 5 panel period? Couldn't we stick to the 8 judge panel and use judges within the region of the show as much as possible?

[geluf]

I did mention there needs to be the risk vs. reward concept. That would prevent watered-down show designs. Just like in figure skating, if you don't have a program that has as much risk, you will not score as high as someone else with a higher risk program.

This is basically what we have now. Composition vs. Achievement. It's a score of difficulty and then a score of how well you achieve said difficulty. In theory, anyway.

Personally, I think it just needs to be better defined.

[Medeabrass]

150 judges. 1 for each member.

[crfrey71]

This is basically what we have now. Composition vs. Achievement. It's a score of difficulty and then a score of how well you achieve said difficulty. In theory, anyway.

Personally, I think it just needs to be better defined.

I agree with you on that. But, why are we seeing 98-99 scores consistently? Maybe change it to composition vs. achievement vs. errors.

[Triple Forte]

I have been thinking that it's been quite a long time since we have had a major change in the judging system, as set forth by DCI. I am thinking it is time to change, revamp, alter how a drum corps show is judged these days.

I agree....

My changes:

A lot less points for effect (Because as we know...these are the most subjective areas). Put these points in to the technical captions.....

Some kind of caption/points for a corps ability to communicate (reach) the audience/crowd

oh.....and a 50 point penalty for playing more than 30 seconds of dissonant music......

[Room_101]

oh.....and a 50 point penalty for playing more than 30 seconds of dissonant music......

[FlamMan]

oh.....and a 50 point penalty for playing more than 30 seconds of dissonant music......

I completely agree. Today's Corps music is neither memorable or musical. Sure the high brow music majors may appreciate it but the average fan doesn't.

I really hope that the Scouts returning to a traditional show rubs off on a few other corps.

[supersop]

GE should be worth 30 pts ..... Visual, Brass and Percussion. 10 pts each

Give the other 10 pts to the execution subcaptions in the music Caption.

The overlap of giving credit to design in GE and on the Other captions is going overboard. There's way to much credit given to design and not nearly enough on execution. There also seems to be credit being given to the flip side of captions based on whether the execution is actually there to make the design shine (ala BD's long run of high scores). Caption bleed and judges not staying within their captions is a big issue as well.

Number 3 issue: Give the scores based on the box criteria and not based on comparitive scoring from one corps to the next. If 3 corps deserve a 9.3 .... then score it as such. Rank and rate sucks.... bigtime.