Minneapolis Corps Directors Meeting

[garfield]

Believe me when I say this. Your knowledge of intellectual property law is staggering and scary at the same time.

Well, I can't disagree with you, that's why I put the word "SPECULATION" in my sentence. But thanks for the compliment, though.

[Martin I. Zing]

The actual proposal allows the G7 to reap the benefits of a series of exclusive competitions (not exhibitions) in major markets on the most lucrative nights of the week, while remaining ensconced within the "restraining" safety net of DCI. The risk of the this new system would be pushed onto the lower placing corps, who would receive less money for performances, lose Friday and Sunday souvie sales, lose sponsor provided housing on those nights, etc. It is both unconscionable and cowardly. They don't have the guts to leave DCI and do what you describe, and for good reason . . . it could just as easily (probably more easily) result in the death of these groups as it could succeed.

If this is the heart of the actual proposal brought forth, I agree that it is cowardly and unconscionable and I could never support this. In fact, I'd react very negativeky against anyone who backed this proposal.

[BOBSMYTH]

You are correct. They were not 'vested in drum corps'. That is my point and I'm glad you finally understand it. The size of the audience for those NOT "in"vested in drum corps is huge and untapped. If DCI can only draw 15,000 to 20,000 to its finals we must assume these are people who are all vested and willing to travel. Could this be why the attendance is so small across the country. Could it be that the scoring system is so esoteric and confusing that you have alienated those who might try to learn? I prefer to think more likely it is impossible to be fair and honest. But either way, it is not done in the interest of entertaining those who as you say are not VESTED in drum corps.

Judging changes, equipment changes --- it is water over the bridge if it does not make the performance MORE CONSUMABLE AND ENTERTAINING to the VIRGIN AUDIENCE because it is they you hope to bring back with a new guest in tow. Drum Corps has lost site of this and I think the G7 group is going to make one last grasp to go out there and grab them. I hope their high level product will be more entertaining like Madison, Royal Airs, VK and vintage Troopers and some SCV always were and are. Tunes you can hum and snap your fingers to. Shows that MOVE you. Am I dreaming?

Yep. You are dreaming.

How is the G7 going to go out and do all that you are ascribing to them?

You say that it is all too esoteric - scoring, judging, etc. You say that it needs to be more consumable and entertaining. You say that you need to attract new people.

So....who is too esoteric and unaproachable and not entertaining and who brought us to this point? The G7. It is under their leadership that we are were we are. It is under their rules changes, their equipment changes, their judging system. And, they're going to be the ones to overcome all that they've created by doing this new yet to be determined thing - and blow up all that they've previously created because they can no longer operate under its "heavy burden".

Yep - you're dreaming.

And, while we're at it - if they can do all that entertaining stuff so much better than what is being done now (your contention, not mine), why don't they?

[garfield]

If this is the heart of the actual proposal brought forth, I agree that it is cowardly and unconscionable and I could never support this. In fact, I'd react very negativeky against anyone who backed this proposal.

Have you READ the proposal?

[ShortAndFast]

You do realize that Martin Zing is not the real name of this poster all, right ??

G

You think? I was hoping he was a sockpuppet for Gibbs or something.

[GMichael1230]

You think? I was hoping he was a sockpuppet for Gibbs or something.

Not Gibbs..the "other one"

G

[Martin I. Zing]

Let me ask you a question.... and be totally honest with yourself here...... if you had a 19 year old son or daughter, would you folk over $3000 to George Hopkins or David Gibbs to take your son or daughter away on a 7 week summer tour of grinding exhibitions where you child is involved essentially in a sweat shop operation with no pay, and in which tickets go for $125 a ticket for performances, and in which the show designers make a lots of dough from these $125. tickets, ? Your child would received little musical feedback from outside judges via competition, nor the drive for member success in competition . Their lasting return on investment of time, money, was " camaraderie from like minded 19 year olders who likewise performed exhibitions for people with lots of cash ".

If you tell me you'd allow your Son or Daughter to perform exhibitions for rich people... and you as a parent would pay $3,000 for the right to do so,.. that enriches the likes of Hopkins and Gibbs, in the process... then you simply have a whole different look on life than I do. I would NEVER give a dime to such an exploitive situation for my son or daughter as this. At least under DCI there is the focus on instruction, training, competition, where the MEMBERS derive benefits as they see their efforts pay off directly to them in dozens of ways. Once 19 year olders do exhibitions for people paying $125 a ticket, the dynamic changes and the performers take a HUGE back seat pretty quickly in such a changed emphasis. If you can't see that, then you and I simply look things here a lot different.

You make some assumptions here Sir that are way off the mark. But in a quick summary of my personal feelings on the issue of honest treatment of 19-year old kids, I think it is indeed the parents' responsibility to observe and try as best they can to determine if their child is being dealt with honestly. I would try to make sure that in either case ---that being the modern DCI drum corps, or the proposed G7 situation that you describe above, my son or daughter's efforts were not being abused or manipulated for the benefit or wealth of others.

It is tough to say because I lack the specific knowledge of musician's skills or marching crafts whether the instructions they are receiving will lead to them capturing the top score in their specialty. Perhaps you can assist me in determining how to evaluate the instruction, training, levels of competition and judging they are receiving and the benefits to be derived from each? What? I can't hear you?

[ShortAndFast]

Judging changes, equipment changes --- it is water over the bridge if it does not make the performance MORE CONSUMABLE AND ENTERTAINING to the VIRGIN AUDIENCE because it is they you hope to bring back with a new guest in tow. Drum Corps has lost site of this and I think the G7 group is going to make one last grasp to go out there and grab them. I hope their high level product will be more entertaining like Madison, Royal Airs, VK and vintage Troopers and some SCV always were and are. Tunes you can hum and snap your fingers to. Shows that MOVE you. Am I dreaming?

Wait, I thought you were a supporter of the G7? Who exactly do you suppose has been proposing and voting for all those rule changes and equipment changes? When you say "drum corps lost sight" of entertainment, what are some specific shows from the last few years that would turn off these 450,000 virgin audience members, and who performed them?

Gosh, I bet it was those dastardly Madison Scouts - thank goodness we kept them out of the G7. They'd never know the first thing about consumable and entertaining shows that you can hum along to.

[Jeff Ream]

well...here's where your thoughts about Madison are killed with the G7 plan.....Madison won't be in the G7

MY RESPONSES ARE ALL UPPER CASE AND CONTAINED WITHIN GARFIELD'S RESPONSE -- HOPE THAT IS OK? MARTIN I. ZING

[Jeff Ream]

Wow. Cannot believe I read most of this topic.

I have not looked at the financials of these corps. However, my guess is that the Blue Devils are very strong financially. I am guessing that Crown is as well.

However,how healthy are the Cadets financially?

I know this info is available to the public because these corps are 501C3's.

A few years ago The Cadets were driving some buses that had almost bald tires. I wondered how many parents even knew the state of their buses. I as a fan was concerned. I remember observing the same thing with East Coast Jazz. Are The Cadets now leasing, I hope?

Does anyone remember when The Cadets had a handful of corps under the YEA umbrella? I know Boston ,Crossmen,and was it Crown that were under YEA. Now it is only the Cadets. What happened?

I know that the idea of increased purchasing power did not work as planned.

Hopkins has done a great job with putting championship driven corps on the field. I am not sure to his success on the financial side?

BD is feeling the $$ heat with increased bingo competition. and as for the Cadets, Hop himself said the corps loses money, but USSBA picks up the slack