Does entertaining to the audience mean not credited by judges?

[bluublood]

How is someone's taste or personal opinion an excuse? And yes there are plenty of new generations ahead of us, but take this into consideration:

1) Music education is falling by the wayside. Music teach positions are getting cut right and left, and the number of students exposed to music programs is dwindling. The numbers are going to continue to fall as more and more money gets cut.

2)The economy is making it more and more difficult for families to attend drum corps shows. I have a family of five, and for us it costs $125 to go to a DCI event. That's a lot of money. If I'm not taking my kids to drum corps shows, and they are not getting music education in their schools, how are they being exposed to the activity?

3) If drum corps is not connecting with the older generations, if its not generating the same excitement it once did (purely subjective, of course), what motivation are they giving us to pass this along to our children? Out of sight, out of mind. There are tons of other activities out there my kids can participate in that are much more cost effective.

I think its safe to say that there is a cost to going down the road we are going. If you leave the mass audience out of the equation and possibly losing fans, you're doing more harm to the activity then good. We might not see the effects now, but five or ten years from now, we will pay the price.

We're both trying to be realistic here. You bring up some good financial points. But hey, the economy will get better as history tells. And for now, the current music education crisis hasn't really phased drum corps. The talent is there and IMO better than it has ever been. As far as passing it to your children, I would hope you would at least expose them and let them make the decision for themselves if they want to be a part of drum corps. And hopefully they can make that decision without the influence of the older generations view that drum corps is going down hill for whatever reason. After all, going back to the basics, drum corps is the same experience even if you think the shows are boring.

[bluublood]

That's not pompus, it's just a very good representation of the audience in general. I'm not saying everyone didn't like it, but a majority didn't. That's pretty clear cut.

How is 25 of your friends a 'very good representation' of the audience in general. Good chance you guys have a lot in common as far as taste is concerned. 25 is not a big number. Now if you said an entire school body in which many people are strangers with several different backgrounds decided against buying the tickets, you might have something there.

Edited July 30, 2010 by bluublood

[Newseditor44]

And that says what, exactly?

Really? I have to spell it out for you?

[bluublood]

And that says what, exactly?

It says 25 drum corps alumni/fans agreed not to watch some live drum corps. Not that you can't just go down the street to the movie theater any day of the week for that... oh wait.

[The Other Mike]

Considering what we are facing with the economy, not to mention the problems with the "no drilling" act and the push for green energy ( which I do understand the need for ), I think the drum corps we all know and love will be making some major changes in the next two years.

National touring models will be too expensive for most corps to do. Right now drum corps is faced with a huge shortage of people in the seats AND fewer shows. Whether or not we like or hate todays programs, drum corps in general need to draw a larger audiance if it is to survive the economy in the next few years. The price of gas in the next two years will put most corps out of business.

DCI corps have pushed the ceiling to unbelievable levels in performance and show design. However, it has also become too "high brow" for the regular, musically uneducated fan that made up a huge portion of the crowds. Most people I know that used to go to several shows a year no longer go. In most cases they say it's just not entertaining anymore. I thought Ballet for Marth was a masterpiece and pushed a few of them to go see it. My God, how could even old pharts not love it ? It's above their heads for the most part and thats people who marched and followed corps for years. DCI has leaped beyond the average persons head.

Yes, it truly is an artform, but if we continue down the road of " I don't care, I'm an artist", there won't be enough people buying tickets to sustain whats on the field.

DCI has pinpointed it's audiance when it should have been extending the fan base to appeal to the largest masses.

ok, I'm off the soapbox

[CrunchyTenor]

I'll weigh in on this from a slightly different perspective. This will be the case of the Bridgemen and VK.

THe Bridgemen rocked the drum corps world in 1976 when they unveiled a new look and attitude that was as different from "traditional" drum corps as you can imagine. The fact that they could flat out play was their saving grace. But I don;t think they could have ever won the whole thing. There was mindset that anyone who didn't take drum corps "seriously" was handicapped. Their third place finish at Birmingham in 1980 was proof of their talent on brass and, especially, in percussion. They took chances with musical selections, and they took chances with what their guard brought to the table as far as selling an attitude. But what they brought most was the crowd to their feet.

VK took a different direction, obviously inspired by the Bridgemen, but with a West Coast vibe. By the time the corps got to finals in Atlanta, they were making some musical statements, too. As a staff member during those days I can tell you we KNEW we wouldn't get the credit we could have gotten if we were more "serious" about drum corps. We told the members not to be disappointed by scores, that the ovation from the audience would tell them if they had had a successful performance. But then, how many comedies have won the Academy Award for Best Picture?

We had some very talented kids go through the corps for most of the eighties and into the nineties, kids that could have played in any top-6 corps. Even when the corps folded in late May of 1997, many of the members found positions in top corps based on their talent as musicians and marchers, and they adapted to the style of their new corps with ease.

I just think it kinda sucks that to be successful you have to "play the game". You could have the most talented corps on the field, but if you're not "playing the game", you're on the outside looking in. Why? Shouldn't you be rewarded for your skills? What good is earth-shattering design if the audience is scratching their heads, that is if they're not giving a polite golf clap or maybe just sitting on their hands?

IMO, technical superiority is fine and dandy, but if it's not musical, why bother? I stated before that I've seen the Arban's brass book, but I don't want to hear it on the field. What good is a jazz-running snareline if they've left their best stuff in the lot? Why waste the talent of the brassline by settling for a chop-and-bop show? For that matter, why waste 16 contra/tuba players by burying them with a synth?

But I digress. The OP has a point. Argue the point, not whether or not he can or cannot "speak for everyone".

Garry in Vegas

Edited July 30, 2010 by CrunchyTenor

[bluublood]

Well it seems the only solution would be to eliminate the competitive aspect. But we all know that can't happen.

[POSITIVenrgy]

I'm speaking for my friends, the people I know, that constitute the paying members of the audience. The people I have talked to, who all share the same opinion that I do, and in certain cases are more vocal than I am. Case in point, there is usually a group of about 25 of us that go to at least one show a year and to the cinema show. The group made a decision not to go this year to either because the shows were boring as hell. None of us saw the benefit of taking the time off and shelling out the money this year because we felt after watching SCV and BD in Riverside that there was nothing entertaining. 25 people who share the same opinion, 25 people from different backgrounds, a few of which are BD and SCV alums, that feel the shows are very disconnected. That's a pretty good representation, don't you think?

You are correct, this will never be a black and white thing. Not everyone is going to like the same thing. But I do think there are a growing number of people that are becoming incredibly irritated with the direction drum corps is headed, and ultimately that is not a good thing. The younger generations might be OK with it, but if you chase away the old farts, you chase away the money and ultimately the future of the activity.

So, based on two corps' shows that you viewed in Riverside, (very early season), you and your friends decide that quarterfinals in the theater, (or any other shows, for that matter), would not be worth the money this year? Really? How unfortunate for you. Absolutely no entertaining shows to be seen this year? Based on Riverside? Sounds very narrow-minded to me.

I was at the Riverside show, as well. Now, I understand some of the crowd "not getting" SCV's show, (especially as it was very early season), although my group, and everyone around us really, really liked Bartok. But, I have to say that I saw an audience go a little crazy for BD's show. They cheered loudly at the big impact moments, and especially at the end. Loudly. Cheering.

I personally LOVE SCV's show this year. Because it is different, and quirky, and intellectual, and challenging. I find it interesting that you initially didn't appreciate Star '93, but admit to having a different view now.

So, again, I say...... how unfortunate for you. I think there are many, many people who are cheering, and enjoying this year of drum corps.

[Newseditor44]

So, based on two corps' shows that you viewed in Riverside, (very early season), you and your friends decide that quarterfinals in the theater, (or any other shows, for that matter), would not be worth the money this year? Really? How unfortunate for you. Absolutely no entertaining shows to be seen this year? Based on Riverside? Sounds very narrow-minded to me.

I was at the Riverside show, as well. Now, I understand some of the crowd "not getting" SCV's show, (especially as it was very early season), although my group, and everyone around us really, really liked Bartok. But, I have to say that I saw an audience go a little crazy for BD's show. They cheered loudly at the big impact moments, and especially at the end. Loudly. Cheering.

I personally LOVE SCV's show this year. Because it is different, and quirky, and intellectual, and challenging. I find it interesting that you initially didn't appreciate Star '93, but admit to having a different view now.

So, again, I say...... how unfortunate for you. I think there are many, many people who are cheering, and enjoying this year of drum corps.

No, it's not unfortunate at all. It's just the way things go. First of all, I can't help when DCI schedules shows on the West Coast. If they want more of money, start sending some different corps my direction.

I will still see a few shows here and there on the internet, but there are plenty of other things that I can find that will entertain me, and I am perfectly OK with that. If DCI wants my money, they know what they need to do.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Newseditor44

[Newseditor44]

Well it seems the only solution would be to eliminate the competitive aspect. But we all know that can't happen.

Or we can overhaul the competitive aspect...