After talking to the judges last night...

[GUARDLING]

What judges do is hard, and they mostly get things right. 90% of the judges are pretty good at their job, and 10% leave something to be desired, but that can be said in almost any profession.

My issues are not with the judges themselves, but rather with the system. For example does an early season 77 from BD equal a 77 a corps is getting now? Does a score you when a top 5 corps is in the show equal the same score when they are not there? The long and short of it, I want the numbers to mean what they say. if a corps scores an 85 I think it should be within 1 point of 85 no matter where you are, what corps you are performing with, or what part of the season it is in. I know thats a pie in the sky, but I think you can say that about other subjective sports. I will admit however that there are alot more components in a drum corps show then there are in a figure skating show.

All comes down to tolerance, show dynamics, spreads and placements for a judge . Numbers pretty much don't mean anything, although some of us cling to that as an indicator of perfection and progress and in some cases its our only tool, but not a valid one......jmo

[BRASSO]

Judges are human beings too.

They put their pants on one leg at a time.

They have feelings just like the rest of us.

They have to remember to check the oil and filter every 3,000 miles.

And rotate the tires as well.

Edited August 1, 2010 by BRASSO

[76strad]

So in yesterday's show in ATL, I had the chance to volunteer with Spirit, and had a job where I was placed on the field for the whole show.

I was to sit in a particular spot the entire show, and my job was to check stuff on the field after a corps performed. The spot I was placed was right next to the judges table. There were 3 of them there (must have been Allen, Bob, and Dave.) Regardless of what anyone says, these guys aren't as bad as they judge (if that makes sense.) After every corps performed, they would come off the field and randomly talk to us, sometimes about the corps that just performed. Even one time I heard one of them say "That was horrible." But I won't mention who they were referring to.

There were times that I had questions, and they'd be glad to answer whatever question I had. I know there is always speculation of whether or not these guys are always right, or consistent at what they do. No, they're not consistent, and they're not always right...everyone makes mistakes. I'm not saying the judges are always right at what they do. I'm just trying to make the point that if you actually talk to them for a period of time, you might not think the same about them when they judge "your" corps in a different way that you thought.

Of course, I'm still upset at some scores that have been given this year, but that doesn't mean I hate the judges. I'm looking at this situation from a "person" standpoint...not a "judge" standpoint if that makes sense. It was interesting to sit there and listen to what they had to say after every corps, and sometimes I found what they said to be quite surprising. Do I want to be a judge? of course not! Do I wish some scores were different, of course! But regardless of the "scoring" side of this activity, these guys are actually nice people, and they aren't just stuck up guys running around on the field bashing a corps when they screw up.

I hear ya, I never talked to a judge, but I'm a retired soccer referee and I understand that everyone disagree and has different views, but if you spend one day in a refs (Judge also I suppose) shoes then you have more respect for the job.

[OMH]

The judges are trying their best to apply the rules set forth in the guidelines.

The fact the these guidelines force them to places scores so opposed to the majority opinion of the paying public (in my opinion) is what's wrong with the system (in my opinion).

Shouldn't the "general effect" a show has on the crowd be factored in?

Not the whole score, of course, but shouldn't it be considered as a factor in determining the design of the show?

The difference in public opinion and judging criteria is (I think) going to do DCI, as an organization, more harm than good.

It's fun to watch 2-5 duke it out, but a bit anti-climactic to have one corps, playing by the rule book, have it "locked up" so early. Kind of like watching the Yankees play the Orioles, but only if you really like baseball or are a fan of either team; otherwise, people tune out.

If DCI wants to thrive and expand, it should foster true competition to make the product more exciting.

I was at Atlanta, and after 2nd place was announced, a lot of people started leaving. There was absolutely no suspense.

I'm sure this has an effect on the MM as well, and DCI is also doing them a dis-service by not acknowledging the reaction MM feel on the field.

I'm certain the BD members feel a little disappointed (of course they won't ever say that in public) when they get "less than enthusiastic" response to their efforts, which is of course really not directed at THEM but at the show DESIGN and scoring criteria.

Even if/when they win, they will have to carry that feeling with them whenever they look at their shiny DCI rings.

This, to me, is a travesty DCI has perpetuated on these very hard working young men and woman.

How should those that wish to effect change in scoring criteria voice their opinion without dis-respecting the MM?

It's a little like in a war where the enemy will use civilians as "human shields" to prevent an attack on a strategic location.

I'm afraid there might have to be some "collateral damage" inflicted in order to get the point to DCI.

[madalumni]

They put their pants on one leg at a time.

Except, after I do that, I make Gold Records!

[GUARDLING]

The judges are trying their best to apply the rules set forth in the guidelines.

The fact the these guidelines force them to places scores so opposed to the majority opinion of the paying public (in my opinion) is what's wrong with the system (in my opinion).

Shouldn't the "general effect" a show has on the crowd be factored in?

Not the whole score, of course, but shouldn't it be considered as a factor in determining the design of the show?

The difference in public opinion and judging criteria is (I think) going to do DCI, as an organization, more harm than good.

It's fun to watch 2-5 duke it out, but a bit anti-climactic to have one corps, playing by the rule book, have it "locked up" so early. Kind of like watching the Yankees play the Orioles, but only if you really like baseball or are a fan of either team; otherwise, people tune out.

If DCI wants to thrive and expand, it should foster true competition to make the product more exciting.

I was at Atlanta, and after 2nd place was announced, a lot of people started leaving. There was absolutely no suspense.

I'm sure this has an effect on the MM as well, and DCI is also doing them a dis-service by not acknowledging the reaction MM feel on the field.

I'm certain the BD members feel a little disappointed (of course they won't ever say that in public) when they get "less than enthusiastic" response to their efforts, which is of course really not directed at THEM but at the show DESIGN and scoring criteria.

Even if/when they win, they will have to carry that feeling with them whenever they look at their shiny DCI rings.

This, to me, is a travesty DCI has perpetuated on these very hard working young men and woman.

How should those that wish to effect change in scoring criteria voice their opinion without dis-respecting the MM?

It's a little like in a war where the enemy will use civilians as "human shields" to prevent an attack on a strategic location.

I'm afraid there might have to be some "collateral damage" inflicted in order to get the point to DCI.

Its all subjective..judge or spectator

[GMichael1230]

I'm certain the BD members feel a little disappointed (of course they won't ever say that in public) when they get "less than enthusiastic" response to their efforts, which is of course really not directed at THEM but at the show DESIGN and scoring criteria.

Even if/when they win, they will have to carry that feeling with them whenever they look at their shiny DCI rings.

It never stops....people love to thinly veil how they think towards something as the truth or the gospel as to how everyone else feels....where have you seen them ? You can tell me how all audiences feel about thier performancve, and how members are gonna feel ?? Yeah, Im sure the amount of standing ovations take precedence over calling their families and telling them they went undefeated in an activity they love....sheesh.

G

just cause the "educated all knowing" membership of DCP feel a certain way, desont mean it equates to the real world mentality.

[Grumpy]

If this was Nascar they could just change the vehicle used to drive the performance and level the playing field from Hendricks/Bluedevils.

The difference is that in Nascar, the drivers/owners are NOT Nascar-Nascar (aka France family) sets the rules; drivers, owners, teams follow them or they get fined, DQ'd, suspended or leave of their own accord. DCI has made their own bed-the member corps have set the parameters, and they change them from time to time mostly to suit their own agendas.

[Grumpy]

Shouldn't the "general effect" a show has on the crowd be factored in?

I've been following drum corps closely for almost 20 years, and that question has come up more times than I could count. There has been debate about including the crowd in the scoring component since I started followig the activity and I suspect long before that.

[soccerguy315]

I was at Atlanta, and after 2nd place was announced, a lot of people started leaving. There was absolutely no suspense.

to be fair, this is always going to be the case. After they announce the 2nd place corps, there is only 1 corps left.