Pitchforks and Torches

[BRASSO]

Spartacus was a great show and I have no complaints about them winning that year.

It shows that crowd response can put you over the edge if things are close. But I don't

think DCP can take credit for that.

Score-wise Phantom was well ahead of BD in percussion and BD was well ahead in visual.

As Finals draws near, gaps tend to compress. On Finals night Phantom closed the gap

in visual, but thanks to Pipitone who likes to maintain larger gaps (see what he did to Cadets

in 2009) the percussion gap didn't close. That made the difference.

BD doesn't have a weakness this year. For someone to beat them they are going to have to

turn around a significant number of captions. Not say that can't happen. Just saying it is

a different situation than 2008.

Lets not forget that in the all important judging roulette wheel roll, both the percussion judge balls landed up in favorable spots for Phantom at Finals in '08, ..and not so much for BD that night.

Some judges are more favorably inclined to your Corps performance in a given year than other judges. That is just an undeniable fact. By the time Finals rolls around all Corps know if they have a favorably inclined judge, or an unfavorably inclined judge judging Finals for them. I knew right away that Phantom had a legitimate shot when the percussion judge draw was made public for the Finals in '08. That was the one caption that BD was vulnerable if one or two of these percussion judges did Finals. The stars all became aligned for Phantom when they found out that not one... but both... of these percussion judges were the draw in percussion for Finals. Phantom obviously had to perform the heck out of their show, and particularly in percussion. And to their credit, they did just that. But Phantom Regiment's good fortune in the percussion judging draw can not be overlooked here either, imo.

Edited August 7, 2010 by BRASSO

[RetiredJedi]

So this is Drum Corps now?

I haven't been to a Drum Corps show since 1998. I couldn't tell you who won the large majority of those years since I stepped away from the activity during that time. Drum Corps, for me, just wasn't a priority anymore.

I do slide onto this site from time to time (a lot lately) to see what's up.

About a week ago I read some critical posts concerning Blue Devils show this year and decided to check it out. I went to you-know-where on the net and watched the show. I watched it several times over the week to allow myself time to analyze it and not rush to any type of judgment. I watched Bluecoats, Carolina Crown, and Cadets as well.

Blue Devils: After I thought about this show I asked the question: Why are they winning? I simply don't get it. The phrase: DEMAND IS INHERENT has obviously been removed from the judges sheets. Has it? They still don't march anything remotely difficult. I honestly believe that we taught harder drill to high school kids 20 years ago. They still don't MOVE while they have a horn lick. Doesn't it bother anyone that every decent horn lick that they've got that they're parked? My perception is that the horn line only plays 5 minutes during that show. They should rename themselves: The Blue Devils Pit with Brass and Percussion accompaniment. I also would guess that the staff has GOT to be laughing all the way back to the buses after critique for successfully pulling this off night after night. I know, I know. I sound completely hateful. I'm not a hateful person, but this is a travesty. NO, I do NOT care how well they've maintained the integrity of the music and how well they perform. My opinion is that ANYONE could perform well with the weak demand placed on the performers of THIS show that wouldn't have cracked the Top 10 20 years ago. Just my opinion.

Bluecoats: WOW!!! Meat in the brass book. Meat in the drum book. Meat from the guard. Meat from the drill. Everything that MY basis for successful Drum Corps is fulfilled with these guys. Amps: I was absolutely sure I would hate it, but it works in this show (mostly). In short... I love this show. If they can clean this monster of a show they win. Even if they don't get completely clean it they should STILL win based on demand.

Drill: Very linear now. I assume that now that George is gone that no one knows how to do curvilinear drill anymore?

Body: If you do body, at least do it well. Star did it well. That's your standard junior. In my day, a show was filled with gimmicky body crap if you you didn't have the chops to play a decent book. Just sayin'...

Amps: Really?

I went to my 1st show in 1978 and stayed until 1998. That 20 years is my baseline for what Drum Corps is (especially the 80"s). That's what I know. Those of you that are younger and only know the past few years have a baseline that I know little about. That's fine. It is what it is. I have a better understanding of what people are moaning about at least.

I step down from my soapbox now.

--------------------

Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes.

[garfield]

Somebody buy this dude a beer...or 3.

I will!

[Tupid_06]

This is my second thread in a half hour. You can blame the guy in the cafeteria who accidentally put caffeinated coffee where the decaf goes. Let's just say that I'm really hyper right now.

Rewind to 2008: A "movement" occurred throughout drum corps that helped propel (in my unscientific opinion) Phantom to victory. I remember posts on DCP in mid July where many were almost shouting that if Phantom didn't win it would be one of the great travesties in drum corps history.

I personally saw the show several times throughout the season (including the first show of the year), Denver, etc. and I noticed a literal ground swell of excitement for this show. It was destiny in the making. The fans had their pitchforks and torches under their seats and ready to use.

I for one believe that particular show had all the components of a legendary show. One of the key elements was fan support. I think it deserved to win 2008, but there is a part of me that believes the fans made it nearly impossible for it not to win. Does that make any sense?

Fast forward to 2010: I question whether there is a corps this year that can harness the power of the crowd. I haven't seen the same zeal for any of the shows this year that rivals the fanaticism that was shown in 08. Could that change? Perhaps, but it's getting late.

You are asking if there is a show that can gain enough support from fans to possibly propel itself past BD? I don't believe so. 2008 was a rare case where Phantom had a show that greatly appealed to almost anyone (myself included). I don't think there is a show that can appeal to everyone in the same way. Sure, I like the Cavaliers and Bluecoats a lot this year, but the show just is not "legendary" in the sense and BD has the technical advantage. I just wish BD could be technically superior and have the wide mass appeal that other corps situated below have.

[skevinp]

Do you people realize that you are taking orders to rise up against BD with

pitchforks and torches from some Psycho-Anthony-Perkins-dude who dresses

up like a grandma online?

And you think BD's SHOW is bizarre? ...

I don't know, it would have fit into their show in 2000.

[Eric M. Buckman]

Oh, good lord. It was a championship show. For one...because it won!

However, you bring up something that many of us contend for which is that a championship show is one in which there is more than just technical cleanliness. I think that is one of the fundamental debates on this site and one that will always bring out the best and worst in all of us.

IF drum corps is art, then the visceral connection between the fan and the corps is critical. That is why I think shows that leave the fan sitting in their seat is undeserving of the championship regardless of how "clean" it is. I am one that does not think the "will of the people" should be ignored in drum corps. I realize this is highly subjective, but then again what part of drum corps isn't to some degree?

In 2008, there were some (like yourself) who claim Phantom did not deserve to win; however, I would bet my new false teeth that 95% of the fans in Bloomington thought they did. They felt that way because Phantom did what all drum corps should strive to do which is touch the fan in their deep inward feelings, whether those feelings are anger, sadness, happiness, excitement, etc.

There are others (and they are welcome to their opinion) who believe that technical superiority wins the day. Heaven help us.

Same could be said for 88 right? At any rate...maybe spartacus deserved the following that they got similar to say 95 Madison...but right now it just seems that shows are tailored to win based on dci judgess sheets and nothing more and to fullfill the demands of achievement opposed to excelling on all levels, DEVS are good and do excel...but if they are so so so boring then how do they get the GE scores they are getting, maybe we should force the GE judges to sit with the fans ,incognito...maybe we should just go back to the "Tick System" and if so what would it change...or would it?

Edited August 8, 2010 by Eric M. Buckman

[skevinp]

My point is that while you and a few others constantly harangue posters who dare to say that "the crowd" likes BD's shows a little less than some others (which isn't news . . . is it?) you do the exact same thing and claim that the audience in certain places are motivated by some primitive combination of regionalism and jealousy to spew hatred towards BD and shower love and affection on others.

Now, it would be silly to say that location and BD's success don't have some impact on audiences. It is likewise silly to maintain that show appeal does not also have an effect. I understand the point you're trying to make about speaking for the crowd, but you've erected an irritating double standard by which you judge posts relating to BD and its relationship with the audience.

Now, I'm disagreeing with you, and I realize I've done that more than a few times. I really do enjoy most of your posts . . . I just think you've pushed things too far in regards to the debate over "the crowd".

This is logical, truthful, reasonable and supportable.

I suspect it will fall on deaf ears.

[Plan9]

So this is Drum Corps now?

I haven't been to a Drum Corps show since 1998. I couldn't tell you who won the large majority of those years since I stepped away from the activity during that time. Drum Corps, for me, just wasn't a priority anymore.

I do slide onto this site from time to time (a lot lately) to see what's up.

About a week ago I read some critical posts concerning Blue Devils show this year and decided to check it out. I went to you-know-where on the net and watched the show. I watched it several times over the week to allow myself time to analyze it and not rush to any type of judgment. I watched Bluecoats, Carolina Crown, and Cadets as well.

Blue Devils: After I thought about this show I asked the question: Why are they winning? I simply don't get it. The phrase: DEMAND IS INHERENT has obviously been removed from the judges sheets. Has it? They still don't march anything remotely difficult. I honestly believe that we taught harder drill to high school kids 20 years ago. They still don't MOVE while they have a horn lick. Doesn't it bother anyone that every decent horn lick that they've got that they're parked? My perception is that the horn line only plays 5 minutes during that show. They should rename themselves: The Blue Devils Pit with Brass and Percussion accompaniment. I also would guess that the staff has GOT to be laughing all the way back to the buses after critique for successfully pulling this off night after night. I know, I know. I sound completely hateful. I'm not a hateful person, but this is a travesty. NO, I do NOT care how well they've maintained the integrity of the music and how well they perform. My opinion is that ANYONE could perform well with the weak demand placed on the performers of THIS show that wouldn't have cracked the Top 10 20 years ago. Just my opinion.

Bluecoats: WOW!!! Meat in the brass book. Meat in the drum book. Meat from the guard. Meat from the drill. Everything that MY basis for successful Drum Corps is fulfilled with these guys. Amps: I was absolutely sure I would hate it, but it works in this show (mostly). In short... I love this show. If they can clean this monster of a show they win. Even if they don't get completely clean it they should STILL win based on demand.

Drill: Very linear now. I assume that now that George is gone that no one knows how to do curvilinear drill anymore?

Body: If you do body, at least do it well. Star did it well. That's your standard junior. In my day, a show was filled with gimmicky body crap if you you didn't have the chops to play a decent book. Just sayin'...

Amps: Really?

I went to my 1st show in 1978 and stayed until 1998. That 20 years is my baseline for what Drum Corps is (especially the 80"s). That's what I know. Those of you that are younger and only know the past few years have a baseline that I know little about. That's fine. It is what it is. I have a better understanding of what people are moaning about at least.

I step down from my soapbox now.

--------------------

Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes.

You may want to stay up on that soapbox....it's getting pretty deep all around you!

[skevinp]

Just as I'm still waiting to hear LaSuerte in 2010.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

[hstrmptguy09]

I don't believe the "home field advantage" really applies in DCI. I didn't see any of the championships live. But I do know that Phantoms show connected with the audience. I saw the theater broadcast of quarters and the entire theater went mad when Phantom finished performing. All the other corps received applause and a couple of "woots", but not nearly the same as Phantom. I don't think the hysteria was limited to Midwest fans, since I'm in Texas.