The Kids work hard, but I still don't like it.

[Matt_S]

The real thing that I get out of posts like the OP's is this:

People in the stands generally want to connect in a visceral way to a corps' performance. We all know that tastes vary, and I think it behooves us to encourage more diversity in style and approach in this medium so more tastes can be met. This is not the first time a "legacy fan" has asserted that too many corps seem to be following a similar formula to their programming. That observation is not limited to legacy fans, either.

In my experience, diversity is the last thing a "legacy fan" wants. Most often when I read a post like the original one in this thread, the author has a specific show or style of show that he would like to see again. It is when something new is attempted that a corps gets blasted for being non-traditional. I think there is plenty of diversity in today's show, but if you close off your mind when listening then of course it's going to sound the same. Speaking for myself, I have a hard time believing that Phantom Regiment sounds anything like the Bluecoats, to pick just two corps.

[Tom Brace]

I know I'm going to get blasted... and I have read over and over the discussions pertaining to this topic.

Last night I went to my first DCI show in a long time and I was so excited to finally see one and I just hated it. I know the kids are working extremely hard and are putting their heart and soul into these shows... that is obvious. And to that extent, every single one of them are great! But these shows are the most boring things I've witnessed in a long time. Who ever is writing the music and the shows should be ashamed of themselves. How can you do that to those hard working kids? I was so disappointed.

I couldn't tell when they were starting half of the time, and if it wasn't for a grand chord at the end and a horn pop, I wouldn't know when it was ending. One show actually put a "blip" of pit at the end so I thought, oh... maybe there is another song...nope. Once the pit was miked up so much they drowned out the drums! In all the years I've been marching and watching drum corps... that has to be a first! When has anything ever drowned out a drum line?! Props... what are they thinking? A guard was doing beautiful work, had beautiful flags and you could barely see them because they had placed them BEHIND these god-awful ugly black props! What is the point of that? I watched the kids race all over the field... AND NOT PLAY! What? All this hype over Bb horns and they aren't playing? Ok, cool visuals, but where's the music? And when they did play, it was "park and bark". I thought, probably because after running, that's all they could do.... and all it sounded like when they did what whole notes in big, esoteric sounding chords. I was extremely greatful for the very few soloists. (And I also noticed not one high note from a soprano/ trumpet. It was so "blended". As a matter of fact, I noticed the shift to featuring low brass most of the time. One corps featured the trumpet line technically at one point and it was a total of 8 counts! That's it? That's all?) Don't tell me I don't understand classical, I'm of the age where you HAD to study that in school. Stuff like that was not an option. I could recognize a piece for a couple of measures and I wasn't sure what the heck they were trying to do after that. I do NOT like the electronic talking on the field. The announcer said the corps would "troop the stands". They didn't, it was chaos on and chaos off. To me it was just a big mess. How can you applaud for the kids hard work during that? I didn't like those big black screens they hide behind. I thought it was extremely distracting.

I really tried to figure out the new format for the shows. I know we went from "off the line" to "the exit", and I've watched DCA do "opener, the ballad and the closer". Honestly, after about the 4th corps, I still didn't get what the format was... assuming there is one. I know I HATE the show format. Please, pull the names out of a hat and let them go on in whatever order happens. I'm sick of them showing the corps in the order they are going to score them. Why even wait for the scores? You know by the line up who is going to win and who will not and everyone inbetween. DCA is just as guilty on that one.

I left the show early. I won't go to another. I left feeling so sad for each and every kid on that field. Everyone of them is giving everything they have, and those are the worst "drum and bugle corps" shows I've ever seen. I thought, leave the orchestra music in the orchestra, get something exciting on those fields.

I know, here it comes, blast me... but all this hype about how wonderful all these new changes are, I wasn't expecting shows that just about put me to sleep.

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

[perc2100]

In my experience, diversity is the last thing a "legacy fan" wants. Most often when I read a post like the original one in this thread, the author has a specific show or style of show that he would like to see again. It is when something new is attempted that a corps gets blasted for being non-traditional. I think there is plenty of diversity in today's show, but if you close off your mind when listening then of course it's going to sound the same. Speaking for myself, I have a hard time believing that Phantom Regiment sounds anything like the Bluecoats, to pick just two corps.

I would argue there is a TON of diversity in modern drum corps. Through out the 90's (note: picking that era because that is when I fell in love with drum corps and personally consider my favorite era DCI from the mid-80's to the mid/late 90's) you kind of had the 'token' big band show, maybe the token 'legit' jazz show, the token latin show (if Madison or Crossmen were doing it that year), and then different variations on symphonic literature. Arguably, at worst, you can almost say the same about this year's eventual Top 12. Looking at last year's Top 12, I'd say the rep. is comparable to any other years in DCI's history as far as variety.

And I agree that corps maintain their identity well, and many of the Finalist corps at the very least seem to have their 'signature sound.'

I think it's very easy for us to view past memories (especially favorable ones) with rose colored glasses, while viewing the present with contempt.

[Diceman]

One of our drivers in 1988 said that consitently through the year. He wanted stuff like it was in the 1960's. The golden era was and always will be the era where you fell in love with it in the first place.

Not always true...

For reference, I marched in the mid-60s through 1971, both junior and senior.

I fell in love with Drum Corps in 1965 when I saw the seniors in Aquinas Stadium: Sky, Hurcs, Bucs, Cru, Cabs, etc.

And I was awed by St. Joes, Magnificent Yankees, Blessed Sac, Vinnies, Garfield, Boston et al...

Having said that:

My personal "Golden Age" of junior corps was the 80s/90s.

(We played the 1981 DCI World Championships two weekends ago on Diceman Radio - there wasn't a "Hot Dog Corps" anywhere...)

And 1996 and 2000 are in my Top 5 Favorite DCI years ever...

To me, the CDs are more important than the DVDs - the music is more important than the drill - no matter what decade.

To that end, the past few years of DCI have.. not impressed overall...

(Shrug)

[CloudHype]

Wow... People liked the 90's???

I just remember RAMD and all the complaining then. Same drivel, new decade.

[Diceman]

Wow... People liked the 90's???

Well, I did!

(Junior and Senior)

I just remember RAMD and all the complaining then. Same drivel, new decade.

Like wine and cheese, some things mellow with age...

Heh...

[perc2100]

To me, the CDs are more important than the DVDs - the music is more important than the drill - no matter what decade.

To that end, the past few years of DCI have.. not impressed overall...

(Shrug)

And this is the problem with some audience members. Shows are not designed for either part to stand alone: shows are designed with the visual being JUST AS IMPORTANT as the music. This was hard for me to buy into, because I bought the CD's for nearly a decade throughout the 90's. But Cavaliers won many Championships the last ten years by designing shows where the visual is not merely complimentary to the music, but at times the music is complimentary to the visual. You can even very briefly see this philosophy at work during the ESPN broadcast in 2005, where the Cavaliers design team was discussing rewrites and the vis team said that a musical phrase had to be lengthened by a certain amount of counts in order to make a specific visual effect work better.

To think of it in another way, take movies. Living in So Cal I am fortunate that I have seen several films at test screenings that contained temp music tracks as the original score was not complete. There were scenes that just fell flat due to weaker music, or scenes that worked BETTER in the test phase because of the superior temp music. For example, I saw the movie Kick-Azz last summer, eight or nine months for the theatrical release. The movie begins as a subtle take/criticism of the contrivances of super-hero/comic-book movies (the movie ends up being a love letter to super-hero movies, but that's a TOTALLY other post ). At the 'test screening' I was at, there were some unfinished effects work and color correction, but the biggest change that I remember is all of the temp music. The movie used bits of Superman score, and Burton's Batman score (among others) to completely drive it's point home, and it worked so incredibly well that when I saw the film in theaters months later the original score wasn't as effective. Or to put it another way, there were test screenings I saw where some scenes felt flat and didn't connect with me, but when the original music was added that 100% drove the emotional point home, it worked well and maximized its effect.

Music and visual are VERY effective together, and while some examples in both mediums work well as a stand-alone, they are most effective in concert with each other. The ascending scale from Cadets 83 is kind of cool on it's own, but absolutely incredible with hearing it accompany that Z-pull. I LOVE hearing that, mostly because when I hear it on CD (and hear the crowd reaction) I know that the music is there merely to support the visual moment, and it's impossible for me to separate the Z-pull from the music: I hear the phrase, and instantly think of the visual phrase no matter what circumstances. Hearing BD 76 Channel One Sweet's big push is a great music moment, but I will always remember the corps in their park and blow formation, dripping confidence and swagger as they blow the crowds faces off. Drum corps is a visual as well as audio medium, and especially now-a-days it is impossible to remove half of the element from the package and still expect a complete product.

[BRASSO]

In my experience, diversity is the last thing a "legacy fan" wants. Most often when I read a post like the original one in this thread, the author has a specific show or style of show that he would like to see again. It is when something new is attempted that a corps gets blasted for being non-traditional. I think there is plenty of diversity in today's show, but if you close off your mind when listening then of course it's going to sound the same. Speaking for myself, I have a hard time believing that Phantom Regiment sounds anything like the Bluecoats, to pick just two corps.

I can't speak for other " Legacy fans " but the idea that somehow most of Legacy fans want all their Drum Corps to look and sound alike is a total mischaracterization of most of the Legacy fans I know. Many desire MORE diversity, not less. You seem to start from the premise that the current DCI Corps offer more diversity than at any time before. But look at the Troopers ( gawd I hate to be critical of them )... their show and music used to be completely awash in the decidely western motif.. it was a unique brand of Americana. Troopers look more and more now like other Corps do.... where is the total comic relief Corps, like for instance Velvet Knights ? ( there is no such Corps).... or the highly polished military precision style of a 27th Lancers, or Anaheim Kingsmen ( there is none ).... or a totally spanish inspired Hawthorne Muchachos ? ( there is none )... or a truly southern style motif of a Spirit of Atlanta ( Spirit might as well be from a factory town in Ohio now).....or a Canadian Corps with a decidely different style of music and design ( there is none from Canada speaking a whole different language re. style )..... or a Bridgemen Corps that screams out " Big City "..... you want " diversity " ? The Bridgemen lived and breathed " diversity ". The Bridgemen would never be confused in look, style, approach, etc to ( say ) the Troopers,.....and if you wanted history, you had Boston Crusaders and the Madison Scouts..... nobody in earlier eras would ever confuse the city kids and style that came from the Boston Crusaders with the prairie kids style of shows from Argonne Rebels from Kansas with their unique style, or the Bayou bluesy rhythms music style played by the Memphis Blues Corps from the bayous of Louisiana.... or the Scottish style influence of the Racine Kilties with their kilts, their unique marching style, and their unique music style.... And the guards did not all look alike. The Cavaliers guard did not look like the 27th Lancers Guard for example. Not even close. The SCV Guard did not look like the Velvet Knights guard. Not even close. I could go on, but suffice to say the notion that legacy fans do not want " diversity " but some how want " sameness " is like asking us to go to an era that resembles more of today, than earlier era's that they recall. There is " some " differeces in styles of Corps today. I can see and acknowledge SOME of that. But certainly not the " diversity " of totally unique and different styles that most of us remember where there were LOTS of diversity found among Corps that became readily apparent even from the moment the marchers got off the bus.

Edited August 9, 2010 by BRASSO

[WOOHOO]

I can't speak for other " Legacy fans " but the idea that somehow most of Legacy fans want all their Drum Corps to look and sound alike is a total mischaracterization of most of the Legacy fans I know. Many desire MORE diversity, not less. You seem to start from the premise that the current DCI Corps offer more diversity than at any time before. But look at the Troopers ( gawd I hate to be critical of them )... their show and music used to be completely awash in the decidely western motif.. it was a unique brand of Americana. Troopers look more and more now like other Corps do.... where is the total comic relief Corps, like for instance Velvet Knights ? ( there is no such Corps).... or the highly polished military precision style of a 27th Lancers, or Anaheim Kingsmen ( there is none ).... or a totally spanish inspired Hawthorne Muchachos ? ( there is none )... or a truly southern style motif of a Spirit of Atlanta ( Spirit might as well be from a factory town in Ohio now).....or a Canadian Corps with a decidely different style of music and design ( there is none from Canada speaking a whole different language re. style )..... or a Bridgemen Corps that screams out " Big City "..... you want " diversity " ? The Bridgemen lived and breathed " diversity ". The Bridgemen would never be confused in look, style, approach, etc to ( say ) the Troopers,.....and if you wanted history, you had Boston Crusaders and the Madison Scouts..... nobody in earlier eras would ever confuse the city kids and style that came from the Boston Crusaders with the prairie kids style of shows from Argonne Rebels from Kansas with their unique style, or the Bayou bluesy rhythms music style played by the Memphis Blues Corps from the bayous of Louisiana.... or the Scottish style influence of the Racine Kilties with their kilts, their unique marching style, and their unique music style.... And the guards did no all look alike. The Cavaliers guard did not look like the 2th Lancers Guard. Not even close. The SCV Guard did not look like the Velvet Knights guard. Not even close. I could go on, but suffice to say the notion that lgacy fans do not want " diversity " but omehow want " sameness " is lik usking us to go t an eara that resembles more of today, than earlier era's that they recall. There is " some " differeces in styles of Corps today. But certainly not the " diversity " of uniue styles that most of us remember where there was LOTS of diversity found aong Corps that became readily apparent even from the moment the marchers got off off the bus.

So, diversity equals the number of cheap cliches a corps has?

You really think that any of the guards look alike now?

[perc2100]

Wow... People liked the 90's???

I just remember RAMD and all the complaining then. Same drivel, new decade.

Heh; how true! To be honest, while I marched in the late 90's I think the mid/late 90's was probably the "dark era" of drum corps as far as originality plus corps participation, as well as execution to an extent (the early/mid-90's features, IMO, the beginning of DCI Champions with significant/obvious dirt in their World Champion performance. I don't feel that applies to all Champions, but it applies to some, including some of my all-time favorite shows).