The 150 member increase.

[MikeD]

I make of it that most of the other directors don't want his proposals but after so much badgering and maniacle pushing, they finally just give up the fight and say "ok fine, Hop. Whatever you say". It's like that annoying kid at the candy store who keeps bugging his parents for a bag of taffy. By the time he is kicking, screeming, crying, biting and spitting, the parents finally give in just to have a moment of peace.

You seem to have a VERY low opinion of the corps directors.

[The Other Mike]

...and Bluecoats and Cavies.

Again, here is what I firmly believe the top 12 breakdown from 2010 (which wasn't much different from 2009), in TRP/MEL/BAR-EUP/TBA)

BD 76 (24/16/24/12) [same in 2009]

OMG 17 pages and I have a headache........................

< que Art Bell theme>

Top 10 things I've learned from this thread

1) BD marched 76 horns, 76 being the 1st year they won finals

2) BD marched 76 horns 7+6=13, the unlucky number

3) BD marched 76 horns ( 7+6=13) while using mirrors ( 6+7=13 )

4) BD marched 76 horns, but only reflected 67 in the mirrors ( almost looks like G7 huh ? )

5) 76 + 67 = 143

6) 143 SHOULD now be the max number of souls on the field ( see #5 )

7) Blue Devils have no souls so they should be unaffected by max number

8) 76=numbers of trombones in Professor Harold Hill's boys band

9) Drum Corps =marching band

10) Cadets are limited to 76 horns (because of #8 & #9)

Special shout out to Mike Davis:

If 128 members on the field was arrived at because it was the total seats combined for three buses:

a) if it were 42 seat buses the number would have been 126

b) if it were 43 seat buses ( as I knew them to be ) that would have been 129 members

c) 128 could be arrived at if every corps all had 43 seat buses with one broken seat in each corps

Now, 7+6=13, and you add the reflected number of 31, that would = 44 seats per bus.

DRUM CORPS CALLER LINE YOU'RE ON THE AIR

[The Other Mike]

OMG 17 pages and I have a headache........................

< que Art Bell theme>

Top 10 things I've learned from this thread

1) BD marched 76 horns, 76 being the 1st year they won finals

2) BD marched 76 horns 7+6=13, the unlucky number

3) BD marched 76 horns ( 7+6=13) while using mirrors ( 6+7=13 )

4) BD marched 76 horns, but only reflected 67 in the mirrors ( almost looks like G7 huh ? )

5) 76 + 67 = 143

6) 143 SHOULD now be the max number of souls on the field ( see #5 )

7) Blue Devils have no souls so they should be unaffected by max number

8) 76=numbers of trombones in Professor Harold Hill's boys band

9) Drum Corps =marching band

10) Cadets are limited to 76 horns (because of #8 & #9)

Special shout out to Mike Davis:

If 128 members on the field was arrived at because it was the total seats combined for three buses:

a) if it were 42 seat buses the number would have been 126

b) if it were 43 seat buses ( as I knew them to be ) that would have been 129 members

c) 128 could be arrived at if every corps all had 43 seat buses with one broken seat in each corps

Now, 7+6=13, and you add the reflected number of 31, that would = 44 seats per bus.

DRUM CORPS CALLER LINE YOU'RE ON THE AIR

you mean I brought a Oui ji board into the thread and it stops ?

Missing bus seat Caller line you're on the air

[Bob984]

I don't think the 150 mark is such a big issue. I think what is a problem is that corps feel that they MUST HAVE

150. They write for 150, and then have blanks. Not good. I would rather see a corps march a full 135 than

attempt to go for 150 and have blanks.

I don't think we should lower the limit from 150. It does give more kids opportunity, and allows the corps to fill

3 buses and a tad more income. However, I don't think they should write a drill for more than they have, and it's ok

to be smaller than 150.

GB

[John Schmitt]

had some extra gasoline lying around and this thread caught my attention...

I think it really comes down to three problems:

1. It's hard to hold on to alternates.

2. It's hard to know which spot you'll need the alternate in on August 12th.

3. You can't teach an alternate an August- clean drum corps show in two days.

I've been seeing numbers around 138 to 149 being called proof that 150 is unattainable. I think it actually shows us that 135 was attainable all along. I bet if we raise the limit to 168 we'll get 150+ healthy finals night in a lot of corps.

The three problems I mentioned above are the reasons any size limit can be tough to attain and maintain. Make it 100. You'll have groups with 97 on finals night.

[txpride]

Right, but the a corps like the Troopers (to use your example) doesn't need to compete with the top 6 to crack back in....they're competing against other corps like themselves. Yes, I realize that they're all at the same show....but my point is, that how the top 6 are arranged, isn't what the Troopers are dealing with. They're competing against other corps about where they are.

I see what you are trying to say but what if the troopers aren't content with staying down there. By your reasoning, top 6 and bottom 6 may as well just be considered seperate divisions (well, I guess it might become....ugh...never mind, I won't go there right now).

It wasn't that awefully long ago that Bluecoats and Crown were in the bottom 6. Heck is wasn't even that long ago that Bluecoats had a year out of Finals and Crown was gone for several. Somehow, those two corps had a chance to become what they are now. But if the current size limits keep all everyone in the corps that are already top 6, the kind of risings that we saw from Coats and Crown may never happen again with anyone else.

[Shamu89]

Some very valid points! Thank you. Here's what I am pretty certain of. Most corps in the top 6 have no problem hitting a high enough number at the audition camps to be able to settle at 150 or somwhere in the high 140s. Down below, not so easy and when you are a corps trying to crack in (or crack BACK in) like Troopers, it's like shooting the moon to hit 150 unless you have some sort of super staff and management suddenly jump out in front of you out of the bushes (like Madison).

If you look at my 09 chart, you will see how it gets smaller in the bottom 6. Phantom was an exception because they just came off of a winning year in 08. So for me, I think dropping it 10 or so members would make it a little more reasonable and fair for the corps outside the bottom 6.

By the way, congrats to your daughter on a great rookie year. I may have my issues with Hop, but I still respect the corps and even moreso, the kids wearing the uniforms. She going back in 2011? :-)

Thanks for the kind words. And yes, her plan is to march until her age out, and she's only 17. Had the time of her life and came back a different kid. I guess my point of view on this whole numbers thing is the more the merrier. ;)

[C4T]

I think numbers should have been instead reduced to 100 max, every corps would then have only two member buses (by the maximizing bus space argument), it would be easier to find housing and rehearsal space for smaller corps, there would be less equipment, less food costs, etc etc but with a higher concentration of talent in every corps.

Just an example, not saying this should be what dci turns into at all, but Blast amazed crowds for years with a cast of around 35-40? Obviously a stage is a much smaller space to fill than a football field...

But wouldn't having 100 of the very best auditionees be just as good or maybe even better than 100 of the best plus the next 50?

Edited August 24, 2010 by C4T

[skywhopper]

It wasn't that awefully long ago that Bluecoats and Crown were in the bottom 6. Heck is wasn't even that long ago that Bluecoats had a year out of Finals and Crown was gone for several.

Crown has only missed one year of finals since they moved to Division I/World Class. They've never been in the bottom six.

Not to dismiss your general point, though, which I agree with. If corps out of the top 10 or so aren't getting anywhere close to 150, then the limit is too high.

I couldn't make it through all the arguing over the exact numbers the Cadets were marching etc, did we get any real numbers on how many each corps had on the field this year? What I saw looked like the numbers were near 150 for the top 11 and Glassmen was a big drop off. What about 13-23?

[cowtown]

I think this is an interesting topic but I’m not too keen on the way it’s being debated and no, I did not read every post so forgive me if this has been covered

I agree that this was a very G-7 rule and thought that it would increase the gap between the G-7 and the rest but I believe I was wrong about that.

I think that the 150 has watered down the G-7 corps (BD and perhaps Cavies being the exception) and brought them with in striking range of the other, upper tier corps (8-11)

In 2008, it seemed the guards were beefed up – I saw a lot of guard dirt even at finals that year. Defiantly a step down in execution, designed seem to suffer too as the field was too busy, filled just because they had the bodies

It’s much more difficult to clean 40 flags than 32 more so when those last 8 flags would have been cut, weakest link in the chain and all

2009, they got better at staging the big guards, broke them into smaller sections more often and had them on different equipment, the pod guard effect – they had been doing this already but it really exploded, partly because the judges ate it up as extra vocabulary but also because its to easier to clean

The payoff in increased horn lines has been greatly diminished by amplifying some brass and the fake bass bottom synth, so I’m not really feeling the extra power or horns, Madison’s 20 contra’s this year being the exception but even much of that was visual

Overall, I do see and hear more dirt on the field from the G-7, easy to understand as they have more to clean and now take members they would have otherwise cut. The 8-12 tiers were already marching some less experienced members and generally had more dirt come finals in their show anyway so it’s less apparent as they look to be at about the same level as they were before the change but with a little more guard slop too

I also find the field to be too cluttered now and too many members seem to have either too much down time or random movement for movements shake to avoid downtown, neither is good from a design or visual standpoint

The pit has grown, the battery hasn’t, wish there were more cymbals lines, would love to see some more 12 man walls of snares

Overall, they don’t seem to be very creative with their use of the extra members as they are all using them pretty much in the same way

If the G-7 go, it might be a good idea to shrink the numbers, spread the talent around and kick start some old drum corps brands to help out the regional idea