You know drum corps is dying when.............

[Jeff Ream]

Uh oh, a little fixated on the posterior qualities of ole' VW, aren't we?

Ah...ladies and gentlemen, the vocal styling's of the G-man (my apologies to the other G). As we so oft do here in DCPland, we tend to talk passed one another. A few points of clarification, I used the word "frightened" as a sort of definition of rejection only, although I have used the Monolith in "2001, A Space Odyssey" as a verbal image in the past (you know, the dinos banging on it with sticks ), I was merely suggesting that 100% of the judges in the past 3 years are in agreement about the content and quality of BD's offerings. They understand. Now, the real conflict comes when they win. As I have said before, if BD had finished 9th, their show would be a footnote and all of you would be validated. "see what happens when you stray from the formula".....and make no mistake about it...what most of the corps are doing is a formula! Predictable, strikingly similar and timeless.

Next... "uncomfortable" is not a bad thing. No more than it was for the audience in "The Blair Witch Project". The difference is that when the audience left the theater most didn't say, "that sucked, made me uncomfortable", it simply succeeded, they enjoyed the emotional ride and told their friends. Also, dissonance is not designed to sooth, it has an audiological purpose. And my dear Garfield, the emotional fabric of the music content designed to stimulate a reaction IMO is the hook that caught the judge's ears. Ignore it, hell no, the judges reveled in it. And not just the performance level and cleanliness. It was pure art through the vehicle of Drum Corps, and I am so sorry you're missing it. There is no conflict in this at all, the only conflict appears to be in the ear of beholder.

Next...Midwest, Schmidwest, who gives a ####! All I'm saying is that Anybody But BD exists, you can hold hands in a circle and claim differently, but it does! It permiates the audience atmosphere like bad ground water. And I use the midwest and Indy as generalities, but it really has to do with having a number of like thinking folks who only need the slightest reason to rally for anyone else. As I said, you could feel the migration of followers move from BC to Cavies when they felt Cavies were in striking distance toward the end of the season. And then deflate when it was clear that no one was going to be close (2 years in row).

Finally, here's my experience. Nearly 4 decades of travel around the world, and a couple of wars (courtesy of Uncle Sam). I have experienced all kinds of entertainment from the Follies Bergere in Paris, the Opera in Vienna, Ice Polo in St Moritz, the Boss and Rolling Stones in Berlin, the Queen's Birthday, The Mahavishnu Orchestra, Brubeck, Miles, and the world's largest Tattoo (bag pipers and fife & drum) in England....just to name a few. I was also the Operations Officer in Berlin before the wall fell down, responsible for the orchestration of the annual 17 Juni Parade involving French, British, German and American forces, flyovers and lots of marching bands, as well as the U.S. Forces 4^th of July parade in Berlin. A touring rock musician (pre-military), opened for the Beach Boys and jammed with the Allman Bros when they were still a local band out of Jacksonville, FL, and a lover of all kinds of music from Jazz to German Slap Dancing. And most recently, band parent president for 4 time State Champ H.S. Marching Band. In short, I get it! I have all the experience I need to make a determination as to what is good and what is better. But what I don't have is the burden of expectation!

I really hope you arent insinuating he's kissing my ###. such a cute way to be snarky, which therefore hurts your credibility. as I've said time and time again, the way you post and hide behind the doesn't endear you to many.

for the record, BD didn't sweep all captions in 2010, so no, not 100% of the judges were in accord. Helps to know that. However, BD didn't win in 2005, and Yowza is still mocked by many fans 5 years later

[drumno5]

got me out of mine to. for the bathroom

I hope everything came out alright for you.

Fred O.

[Jeff Ream]

I've only been in one war, but I am a globetrotting traveler who's spent considerable time abroad, been to the Bolshoi many times, and been entertained by top orchestras and operas. I speak Arabic, French, and Russian along with a smattering of Pashtu, Farsi, and German(and I can read Latin and Persian). I'm a member of Phi Beta Kappa, have a masters in history, and am well on my way to a doctorate. Growing up on a tobacco farm I am well qualified to set, cut, hang, cure, and sell tobacco. I can also identify every bird species in the United States and Canada by sight and sound. I can get a kite aloft with almost no wind, and have personally seen not less than two tornadoes. I won a grand total of 3 marching band state championships in high school.

Unfortunately I have this nagging feeling that none of this qualifies me to spin preposterous BS about DCI audiences after following drum corps, given that I only have a mere 15 years of following the activity. Maybe I just need one more war under my belt, then I'll be ready . . . maybe. Personally I can't wait for the when I speak for audiences with such confident obtuseness. Until then I'll just assume that audiences tempered their reaction to BD because that's what their show was designed to do, and I'll also continue to assume that the times people went nuts over BD when they were threatening to repeat as champions are not figments of my imagination.

Edit: I am glad that another poster gave me an opening, small though it was, to let everyone know about the super cool and awesome I've done.

[Jeff Ream]

I hope everything came out alright for you.

Fred O.

thanks for asking. yes, 3 bottles of water consumed during the prior 11 corps left just fine.

[JimF-LowBari]

thanks for asking. yes, 3 bottles of water consumed during the prior 11 corps left just fine.

Wait'll ya get old like me and take water pills for ye olde blood pressure.

More like every 3 corps and feel like you drank 11 bottles.

Ahhhh... I can hear Camp Hills drumline practicing in the distance.....

[garfield]

Uh oh, a little fixated on the posterior qualities of ole' VW, aren't we?

Ah...ladies and gentlemen, the vocal styling’s of the G-man (my apologies to the other G). As we so oft do here in DCPland, we tend to talk passed one another. A few points of clarification, I used the word "frightened" as a sort of definition of rejection only, although I have used the Monolith in "2001, A Space Odyssey" as a verbal image in the past (you know, the dinos banging on it with sticks ), I was merely suggesting that 100% of the judges in the past 3 years are in agreement about the content and quality of BD's offerings. They understand. Now, the real conflict comes when they win. As I have said before, if BD had finished 9th, their show would be a footnote and all of you would be validated. "see what happens when you stray from the formula".....and make no mistake about it...what most of the corps are doing is a formula! Predictable, strikingly similar and timeless.

Next... "uncomfortable" is not a bad thing. No more than it was for the audience in "The Blair Witch Project". The difference is that when the audience left the theater most didn't say, "that sucked, made me uncomfortable", it simply succeeded, they enjoyed the emotional ride and told their friends. Also, dissonance is not designed to sooth, it has an audiological purpose. And my dear Garfield, the emotional fabric of the music content designed to stimulate a reaction IMO is the hook that caught the judge's ears. Ignore it, hell no, the judges reveled in it. And not just the performance level and cleanliness. It was pure art through the vehicle of Drum Corps, and I am so sorry you're missing it. There is no conflict in this at all, the only conflict appears to be in the ear of beholder.

Next...Midwest, Schmidwest, who gives a ####! All I'm saying is that Anybody But BD exists, you can hold hands in a circle and claim differently, but it does! It permiates the audience atmosphere like bad ground water. And I use the midwest and Indy as generalities, but it really has to do with having a number of like thinking folks who only need the slightest reason to rally for anyone else. As I said, you could feel the migration of followers move from BC to Cavies when they felt Cavies were in striking distance toward the end of the season. And then deflate when it was clear that no one was going to be close (2 years in row).

Finally, here’s my experience. Nearly 4 decades of travel around the world, and a couple of wars (courtesy of Uncle Sam). I have experienced all kinds of entertainment from the Follies Bergere in Paris, the Opera in Vienna, Ice Polo in St Moritz, the Boss and Rolling Stones in Berlin, the Queen's Birthday, The Mahavishnu Orchestra, Brubeck, Miles, and the world’s largest Tattoo (bag pipers and fife & drum) in England....just to name a few. I was also the Operations Officer in Berlin before the wall fell down, responsible for the orchestration of the annual 17 Juni Parade involving French, British, German and American forces, flyovers and lots of marching bands, as well as the U.S. Forces 4^th of July parade in Berlin. A touring rock musician (pre-military), opened for the Beach Boys and jammed with the Allman Bros when they were still a local band out of Jacksonville, FL, and a lover of all kinds of music from Jazz to German Slap Dancing. And most recently, band parent president for 4 time State Champ H.S. Marching Band. In short, I get it! I have all the experience I need to make a determination as to what is good and what is better. But what I don’t have is the burden of expectation!

The similarities between Venus William's posterior (I got it!) and Jeff's Jetta are striking, but frankly, given the choice, I'm not sure which one I'd more enjoy kissing! (Your retort was funny, Plan, but Jeff's made yours hilarious! Bravo to both of you..)

Now Plan, you know that I bow at your feet for your remarkable service to our country, and I would gladly get you German Slap Dancing-drunk in the impossible task of bestowing my thanks on you for that.

But comparing Blair Witch project to the dissonance of a drum corps show designed to make me uncomfortable is stretching the point quite too far. True, entertainment is in the ear and eye of the beholder and dissonance has been used for eons in music to cause discomfort. And ala many corps over the years (there's that experience thing again) we fans have been exposed to the rough edges and discomfort of dissonance many times. But, unlike '10 BD, I can't remember a single time of those where I left the stands so bewildered by the performance, having never been given the resolution that all great dissonance demands. I've felt "uncomfortable" many dozens of times during drum corps shows but was resolved of my conflict by the music designed into the show. Not so in '10 BD. They left the dissonance ringing in my ears as if shaken in a blender and, apparently, intentionally so. THAT'S the disagreeable thing about their show. The opening 8 counts were sweetness and familiarity, but the rest of the show descended into the abyss of confusion (magnified by the mirrors and unparalleled guard performance [well, that, and a relatively crappy drum line]) and never came up, or allowed me to come up, for air. I find it hard to walk away with a smile on my face after having been subjected to 11:15 of "discomfort", and it's made even worse knowing that the designers intended me to feel that way. If I ever went to see Blair Witch (I didn't) I would know that I was going to have my pants scared off. The unexpected discomfort of BD's '10 show left me feeling deprived, and hardly entertained. If I paid $12 for a ticket to Blair Witch and instead saw Bambi kissing Big Bird I'd be just a disappointed in the "show design" regardless of whether the designers tried to convince me that Bambi and Big Bird are the "new thing" in horror classics.

It had nothing to do with "ABBD"; I would love to see them win again in '11 IF, and it's a big IF, I don't exit the stadium shaking my head in bewilderment at what they put on the field, like I did this year. Did you hear that? I would LOVE to see them entertain me, leave me feeling great about their presentation, and win to boot.

So, if it's not the Schmidwest, are you saying that there's an underlying feeling of "ABBD" in any fan outside of Concord who isn't entertained by the edgy, dissonant, uncomfortable goo that BD produced this year, and doesn't wish to experience such goo again? That's a bit of an over-generalizing stretch isn't it?

I won't bore you with my 4 decades of experience because I know that you know that it's irrelevant. Suffice it to say that I've been as entertained by BD and hundreds of other corps over the years as most others. It just so happens that I was completely disappointed in the '10 BD production. I might be alone in that view, although my hunch tells me otherwise. And I might be the only one, or one of a small group, who didn't appreciate their show for myriad reasons completely unrelated to Anyone But BD. But I doubt that, too.

Thanks for the great banter, Plan, and for your service that helped make it possible. But I'd rather kiss VW's patootie, or even Jeff's, than yours on the issue of ABBD.

[Big Bad Bari]

Is there such a thing as regional bias?

Naaah... I do not think it exists anymore... But there certainly is an ANYONE but the incumbant attitude out there... When people call for parity... What are they calling for? Could it be a different winner? Ummmm me thinks yes...

Also I know I am bringing NASCAR into the discussion but...

Jimmie Johnson is in a two man race to win the Sprint Cup for the 5th consecutive time! Do you think he is popular with anyone but HIS fans right now?

Evidense of this type of thinking is all around you...

So if you didn't like the 2010 BD show this year it very well could be because you didn't like the show... If you are a smart person and you are capable of forming your own opinion and hated it, then you probably hated the show... If you are not that guy/gal then you might hate it because someone you think is smart, told you they hate it or you saw them sit on their hands, so now you hate it... There are many many reasons why... It cannot be pigeonholed! I am pretty sure we will not get a bunch of people saying I hated it because someone told me to do so... Those folks are still drooling on the keyboard.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Big Bad Bari

[WOOHOO]

Is there such a thing as regional bias?

Naaah... I do not think it exists anymore... But there certainly is an ANYONE but the incumbant attitude out there... When people call for parity... What are they calling for? Could it be a different winner? Ummmm me thinks yes...

Also I know I am bringing NASCAR into the discussion but...

Jimmie Johnson is in a two man race to win the Sprint Cup for the 5th consecutive time! Do you think he is popular with anyone but HIS fans right now?

Evidense of this type of thinking is all around you...

So if you didn't like the 2010 BD show this year it very well could be because you didn't like the show... If you are a smart person and you are capable of forming your own opinion and hated it, then you probably hated the show... If you are not that guy/gal then you might hate it because someone you think is smart, told you they hate it or you saw them sit on their hands, so now you hate it... There are many many reasons why... It cannot be pigeonholed! I am pretty sure we will not get a bunch of people saying I hated it because someone told me to do so... Those folks are still drooling on the keyboard.

Or, their opinion is more important because "the fans are on their side", whatever that means.

[Lance]

a thread about drum corps dying turning into little more than a hate BD thread?

get out.

[Jeff Ream]

Wait'll ya get old like me and take water pills for ye olde blood pressure.

More like every 3 corps and feel like you drank 11 bottles.

Ahhhh... I can hear Camp Hills drumline practicing in the distance.....

I was in town, heard em and stopped by to say hi to the old alma mater. looking good this year!