DCW article regarding touring . . .

[Hrothgar15]

You are obviously looking at the issue thru your OWN glasses, as opposed to trying to look at it thru the glasses of another.

Yet I am one of those exact people who has nothing to do with music peformance, or any performing art, really, yet am completely entranced by what a drum and bugle corps show can (or rather, used to) be. All the more reason to try even harder to be so entertaining as to wow even the people with no musical involvement.

[Big Bad Bari]

Yet I am one of those delusional people who has nothing to do with music peformance, or any performing art, really, yet am completely entranced by what a drum and bugle corps show can (or rather, used to) be. All the more reason to try even harder to be so entertaining as to wow even the people with no musical involvement.

So what you think would work, since when I marched in BD in 1981 we had a guard in spandex is... Go back to cadet unis for all... Start the show in the corner of the field have a color pre and that will get todays masses interested! LOL

DELUSIONAL THINKING...

It is geeky my friend because it is done with (close to) legetimate wind instruments, precussion instruments and frankly that isn't what most folks listen to anymore... It was cute when you said, "how about people interested in action movies etc..." (Paraphrasing) LOL yes, I am sure they want to hear classical music or even jazz or movie themes played... How about we go way way back and play all patriotic music... Get rid of the valves and make it even more new and vibrant!Albeit (some of) these things are cool to you and I... Not so much to people who aren't a geek like YOU and I... End Rant...

[Tito John]

I seem to miss all the interesting threads until late on...

IMO, it's either entertainment -- traditional entertainment if I had my way, without all the electronic fluff -- or continue on as an activity by music majors for music majors judged by music majors who look down their noses at the hoi polloi.

Maybe the best example was this year's BD show. Visually, it was breathtaking. Absolutely stunning. But they sounded like an orchestra (minus strings and reeds LOL!) tuning up. Jarring transitions, dissonances everywhere...completely unnecessary, and the show would have been just as stunning with music that was accessible to more people.

[Big Bad Bari]

I seem to miss all the interesting threads until late on...

IMO, it's either entertainment -- traditional entertainment if I had my way, without all the electronic fluff -- or continue on as an activity by music majors for music majors judged by music majors who look down their noses at the hoi polloi.

Maybe the best example was this year's BD show. Visually, it was breathtaking. Absolutely stunning. But they sounded like an orchestra (minus strings and reeds LOL!) tuning up. Jarring transitions, dissonances everywhere...completely unnecessary, and the show would have been just as stunning with music that was accessible to more people.

So here is my question... I am an old timer... Maybe not as old as some on here but... IMHO DCI has the same problem that the Tobacco companies, Lincoln Mercury and Cadillac! The customer base is dying off and I am sorry but we are all mortal... Even me "The Immortal Baritone" so who is going to come watch when we are gone? I just bet a lot of you who bluster that we have to make shows like back in the day don't really care what happens when you are gone. So why try to appeal to the younger crowd since that will have no effect on you, when you are too old to come anymore or worse... You are just plain gone for good. Maybe a little global thinking should be applied so it can go on after we are gone...

[ContraRich77]

Yet I am one of those exact people who has nothing to do with music peformance, or any performing art, really, yet am completely entranced by what a drum and bugle corps show can (or rather, used to) be. All the more reason to try even harder to be so entertaining as to wow even the people with no musical involvement.

I am not sure what, if anything, you are getting at...........but I'm going to try this.

You win.

I lose.

Hope this helps you out a little.

[MikeD]

What is inherently geeky about performing music and forming visually pleasing formations? The only thing "geeky" about drum corps is godawful spandex color guard costumes, poorly thought out and abstract themes, "modernized" skin-tight uniforms, cheesy synth patches, incomprehensible marimba-mashing, and plenty of childish, uncomfortable elements you would never find in any mainstream performing art. Take those out and you can appeal to anyone. People like loud, people like beautiful, people like shapes that come out of nowhere, people like company fronts, people like entertaining. Sure, not everyone is going be into it, but not everyone likes Broadway or NASCAR, right?

How many people in the audience in my signature had nothing to do with drum corps, and came to the show to be entertained, and by the looks of it, were?

Drum corps was inherently geeky long before DCI came along. Growing up through the 60's and early 70's, my friends had NO idea why I'd want to march around playing lame arrangements of pop tunes, old music from the 30's and 40's, and patriotic stuff like Battle Hymn. There was nothing cool about that to someone on the outside...which was just about everybody.

I have nothing to do with marching band.

Yes, you do, if you like drum corps you are liking marching band.

[pearlsnaredrummer77]

So here is my question... I am an old timer... Maybe not as old as some on here but... IMHO DCI has the same problem that the Tobacco companies, Lincoln Mercury and Cadillac! The customer base is dying off and I am sorry but we are all mortal... Even me "The Immortal Baritone" so who is going to come watch when we are gone? I just bet a lot of you who bluster that we have to make shows like back in the day don't really care what happens when you are gone. So why try to appeal to the younger crowd since that will have no effect on you, when you are too old to come anymore or worse... You are just plain gone for good. Maybe a little global thinking should be applied so it can go on after we are gone...

I don't think it's that the customer base is dying off because of aging. I also don't think it's a generational thing. That's not really the problem.

Death. Some of us veterans just quit supporting DCI because we don't like the product anymore. People my age could feasibly be fans for another 30 years or more. That's a long time.... So we are not dead yet.

Policy driven losses. Most losses are due to specific policies pursued by DCI. Over time DCI has made strategic decisions to pursue a model with less corps, and less shows. The smaller concentration of corps yielded a greater concentration of talent. However, in pursuing this model DCI lost the critical mass of corps members and corps supported shows. So now you have less shows, often attended by less people (for reasons discussed below) and the shows that exist are spread out over a larger geographic area in a time of economic recession.

Smaller crowds. A lot of people who went to shows in the past were related to corps members, were friends, family, neighbors & community members. Now with a smaller critical mass of members there are less people to naturally be drawn to a DCI show. Moreover a corps membership now is no longer local-membership is national and even international-so you don't have those deep community roots that previous generations of junior corps could draw on. DCI also has lost out on thousands of corps veterans to support future generations simply from pursuing a model whereby the big corps ate up the smaller. Although for people like Mr. Hopkins it was wonderful in the short term it has all but killed the junior activity. There is no longer a critical mass.

Artistically. Drum corps came from a working-class, popular culture base (as opposed to 'high' culture). That meant playing muisc the audience may not always know, but could relate to... The changes in DCI artistic style has alienated potential fans and many veterans. Frankly, even with the loud synths, guitars, and brass, and incredibly fast running it is boring to people who are not specialists, or future music majors

[MikeD]

I don't think it's that the customer base is dying off because of aging. I also don't think it's a generational thing. That's not really the problem.

Death. Some of us veterans just quit supporting DCI because we don't like the product anymore. People my age could feasibly be fans for another 30 years or more. That's a long time.... So we are not dead yet.

Lots of legacy fans ARE still fans. Some aren't. As always. In 1971 shows were not packed with corps vets from the 30's, 40's, and 50's. You'd see kids with corps jackets from the many small corps at local shows I marched in back then. Plus some vets...plus some folks who wandered in because the show was part of a local community event or something.

Policy driven losses. Most losses are due to specific policies pursued by DCI. Over time DCI has made strategic decisions to pursue a model with less corps, and less shows. The smaller concentration of corps yielded a greater concentration of talent. However, in pursuing this model DCI lost the critical mass of corps members and corps supported shows. So now you have less shows, often attended by less people (for reasons discussed below) and the shows that exist are spread out over a larger geographic area in a time of economic recession.

You have it totally backwards. DCI went the direction it went because the numbers of corps fell and fell and fell...it did not cause that to happen, but DCI had to deal with it.

Smaller crowds. A lot of people who went to shows in the past were related to corps members, were friends, family, neighbors & community members. Now with a smaller critical mass of members there are less people to naturally be drawn to a DCI show. Moreover a corps membership now is no longer local-membership is national and even international-so you don't have those deep community roots that previous generations of junior corps could draw on. DCI also has lost out on thousands of corps veterans to support future generations simply from pursuing a model whereby the big corps ate up the smaller. Although for people like Mr. Hopkins it was wonderful in the short term it has all but killed the junior activity. There is no longer a critical mass.

DCI is targeting it's efforts at the scholastic music students precisely to try and bring in more audience and future members, as it should. Instead of 400+ competitive corps, there are thousands of band programs that could...and do...provide a lot of people to watch corps shows.

The reality is that there are not a large number of corps, but the potential numbers from the bands is many times greater than ever existed back in the day.

BTW...even back in the day it wasn't always 'deep community roots'. Few people in the town I grew up in had anything at all to do with either of then local corps based in my town, unless one of their family members belonged. In Garfield, when I marched there the town barely tolerated us...we had to journey elsewhere to rehearse because they town gave us a lot of grief when we tried to practice in town, and the town provided just about zero support to us.

Artistically. Drum corps came from a working-class, popular culture base (as opposed to 'high' culture). That meant playing muisc the audience may not always know, but could relate to... The changes in DCI artistic style has alienated potential fans and many veterans. Frankly, even with the loud synths, guitars, and brass, and incredibly fast running it is boring to people who are not specialists, or future music majors

Drum corps music 'back then' appealed to the audience of 'back then', like the music of today appeals to the audience of today...young and old. As much as I loved my era, I would much rather see and hear a drum corps of today with all of the progress made since my day.

[pearlsnaredrummer77]

BTW...even back in the day it wasn't always 'deep community roots'. Few people in the town I grew up in had anything at all to do with either of then local corps based in my town, unless one of their family members belonged. In Garfield, when I marched there the town barely tolerated us...we had to journey elsewhere to rehearse because they town gave us a lot of grief when we tried to practice in town, and the town provided just about zero support to us.

Drum corps music 'back then' appealed to the audience of 'back then', like the music of today appeals to the audience of today...young and old. As much as I loved my era, I would much rather see and hear a drum corps of today with all of the progress made since my day.

Maybe not for you-maybe because of the population density of Garfield, but people from the Butler community came to our bingos, bought our junk, and cheered us in parades. We often spent camps at the local armory (or other local places) when the corps hall was booked for a local event with local people, local people drove our buses (and sometimes rode them), fixed our equipment. And we played at local stuff so they knew who we were. So it need not be a poor relationship with your sponsor community. Plus those are the kinds of communities that hosted the shows that we lost and Mr. Hopkins has finally discovered strongly contributed to the fiscal health of the activity.

About the music: the point is that the music of today is only appealing to the specialists and music majors. It would be nice if it reflected some more approachable music for the fan base. And as Hopkins himself says, there's not much left...

[MikeD]

Maybe not for you-maybe because of the population density of Garfield, but people from the Butler community came to our bingos, bought our junk, and cheered us in parades. We often spent camps at the local armory (or other local places) when the corps hall was booked for a local event with local people, local people drove our buses (and sometimes rode them), fixed our equipment. And we played at local stuff so they knew who we were. So it need not be a poor relationship with your sponsor community. Plus those are the kinds of communities that hosted the shows that we lost and Mr. Hopkins has finally discovered strongly contributed to the fiscal health of the activity.

Oh, people attended Bingos, gave us money on tag day, etc...but they did that for any group doing those things...not because they had any interest in drum corps. My mother-in-law attended Bingo for the corps I was with long before I met my wife, but she did not eve know what a corps was..she liked Bingo.

About the music: the point is that the music of today is only appealing to the specialists and music majors. It would be nice if it reflected some more approachable music for the fan base. And as Hopkins himself says, there's not much left...

I don't agree. You still see corps doing West Side Story, for goodness sake. And Slaughter on 10th Ave. Drum corps music is hardly esoteric. Even BD last year. A little of that goes a long way, IMO.