DCW article regarding touring . . .

[supersop]

The problem is that this is all hypothetical and misdirected thinking. We have always had this market available, but we have been more concerned with keeping drum corps exactly the way we want it instead of reaching out to the community. Sure, 15.5 million is a lot, but what proposals has anyone said on here to reach that number that involves making any changes to the way that drum corps is presented? Let's stop worrying about electronics and woodwinds and address issues that a non musician could possible care about.

If I didn't say it in this thread .. I've said it in countless others. Marketing at the DCI level is a joke. Email lists won't cut it. There needs to be direct marketing to potential consumers of the product. There needs to be professionally produced commercials that run 1 week prior to an event in said market. DCI can be expanded to the reality TV market if it is pitched properly to television executives (pretty sure I went over this in this thread). Professional studio recordings of popular instrumental music that would be played on radio stations ... even if you have to pay them to play it and schpiel a lil ditty about what DCI is and where they can find it. There are countless ways to market DCI. It just seems the way DCI markets itself now is to keep adding things and not really tell anyone their doing it until after they've already bought a ticket. SERIOUSLY that's what they do. They do get SOME marketing done for them by the instrument/equipment/uniform manufacturers ....... but who is that marketing to? The people who already support the activity and the people who instantaneously ROUND FILE the advertisement because they have already vilified and demonized drum corps to their students based on false information and preconceived notions of what drum corps "is".

We don't even know what drum corps is anymore ... it has changed almost every year since 2000 by trying to RE=BRAND itself. The entire A&E experiment has been a massive waste of money and valuable resources that could have been put to better use. The more DCI (in its current state) tries to have an identity that is somehow new .......... they are left with no unique identity whatsoever. I guess the answer to making a bigger notch in the niche market is to disguise ourselves as something we are not (or should never be)?

How can you ask people to stop worrying about electrics and woodwinds and amps and blah blah blah? This all started with Multi Key. It put a dent in the miniscule market share DCI barely had at that point. Adding all that other crap made it drop even further. NOw you're losing ticket sales ..... you're losing after market sales ... you're showing a feable increase in revenues after having record losses for the better part of 2 decades. Factor in inflation and the track record is worse than pathetic ......

It's time for those who wanted change to make the hard choices with regards to their survival. This does not mean changing the sytem, running your own shows outside of DCI's purse nor running static just to get people talking about the crap that doesn't matter. This means amend your own budget. Stay closer to home. Find more revenue sources. Take the first week off of tour. WHATEVER. Do it IN HOUSE .. in your OWN HOUSE ....... not in the halls, board rooms and restrooms of DCI.

[soccerguy315]

I'm sure if you were running a corps as long as he has, you would think differently. It's hard to lose money for over 20 years and not get sick of the same thing over and over again.

if you are sick of your job, you get a different one. You don't try to change everything about the job you have.

[WOOHOO]

if you are sick of your job, you get a different one. You don't try to change everything about the job you have.

If you see something inefficient going on in your industry, you do what you can to try to change things, not give up.

[WOOHOO]

How can you ask people to stop worrying about electrics and woodwinds and amps and blah blah blah? This all started with Multi Key. It put a dent in the miniscule market share DCI barely had at that point. Adding all that other crap made it drop even further. NOw you're losing ticket sales ..... you're losing after market sales ... you're showing a feable increase in revenues after having record losses for the better part of 2 decades. Factor in inflation and the track record is worse than pathetic ......

I ask that because only people in the drum corps community care about it. No one else. I do agree that marketing in drum corps is not good enough, but neither is the "good ole boy" attitude we take towards change.

[supersop]

I ask that because only people in the drum corps community care about it. No one else. I do agree that marketing in drum corps is not good enough, but neither is the "good ole boy" attitude we take towards change.

My friend, I can't say it any more plainly than I already have. The changes that were instituted by those in power at the time, directly correlate to the current state of affairs. The same people pushing for more changes is only going to make the matter worse. Show me a bright spot in their track record of change other than "Multi Key is more in tune because it gives the weaker players a crutch that G bugles didn't offer". The "Good Ole Boy's" of DCI are the same people you are defending right now. I trust them to do nothing more than be self serving and highly influenced by those who lobby them ......... and then have a professional politicians ability to spin things so far off center that you forget what the original argument was even about.

There is absolutely NO reason whatsoever to trust anything that comes from the mouth of Hopkins, Gibbs, Feidler and the others who served on the board. They will continue to push for change to a business model that THEY created.

Let's go back to business 101. If you make a change and it doesn't work ....... revert back to what did work and salvage your losses before you change again and make things exponentially worse.

That is where we are. And THAT is not what they want to do ...... and they will NOT tell you why. How can you trust that?

Edited September 3, 2010 by supersop

[WOOHOO]

My friend, I can't say it any more plainly than I already have. The changes that were instituted by those in power at the time, directly correlate to the current state of affairs. The same people pushing for more changes is only going to make the matter worse. Show me a bright spot in their track record of change other than "Multi Key is more in tune because it gives the weaker players a crutch that G bugles didn't offer". The "Good Ole Boy's" of DCI are the same people you are defending right now. I trust them to do nothing more than be self serving and highly influenced by those who lobby them ......... and then have a professional politicians ability to spin things so far off center that you forget what the original argument was even about.

There is absolutely NO reason whatsoever to trust anything that comes from the mouth of Hopkins, Gibbs, Feidler and the others who served on the board. They will continue to push for change to a business model that THEY created.

Let's go back to business 101. If you make a change and it doesn't work ....... revert back to what did work and salvage your losses before you change again and make things exponentially worse.

That is where we are. And THAT is not what they want to do ...... and they will NOT tell you why. How can you trust that?

I, as a fan, don't need to trust it. My trust level is completely irrelevant. I don't work for DCI, or any of those corps. I just try to enjoy the shows, and I do. If you don't, that is too bad. You should probably take those ideas to someone who can do something about it, and not try to convince me, because I can't do anything to help you.

[supersop]

I, as a fan, don't need to trust it. My trust level is completely irrelevant. I don't work for DCI, or any of those corps. I just try to enjoy the shows, and I do. If you don't, that is too bad. You should probably take those ideas to someone who can do something about it, and not try to convince me, because I can't do anything to help you.

This is a discussion forum about all things drum corps. Whether you can do anything about it or not is irrelevant to the argument. You say you enjoy the shows ... I would say I enjoy a fair number of them as well. Do I enjoy them as a purist of drum and bugle corps? No. Do I enjoy them is highbrow forms of entertainment for the educated fan? Absolutely.

I'm just wondering where this new market is that Hoppy is talking about. "Come see our Pre-Show .. it's the greatest thing on Earth!". Ya .. have fun trying to sell that to the masses of non fans.

BTW, being a fan automatically qualifies you as somewhat educated to the activity. In being a fan that merely enjoys the shows ... what are you doing on a discussion forum debating the issue if you deem yourself irrelevant to the points of the argument and just someone who enjoys the shows and can do nothing about the things being debated??

Imagining that a corps director is sick of losing money for over 20 years as being reason enough to bastardize the idiom is fatally flawed. The people you are talking about run a NON profit organization. They seek out donations and generate revenue to cover the expenses of non profit activities .. which includes spending 35k per week touring the country from their budget ... which they know full well is PART of the natural budget process. As Mr. Mason said, "If you want to go Pro .. fine go do that but leave DCI alone." If these same directors wanted to make measurable change in a positive direction, they would revisit what has worked in the past and do their part to make those things happen again. They would also take a long hard look at what has changed for the worse and how that took place. A total overhaul is something you do as a last ditch effort when the ship is nearly sunk ........ and based on the limited financial data we have available to the public, DCI is in the same general financial shape or better than it has been in the past 15 years.

Someone please explain to me what all this barking is really about other than smoke and mirrors?

Edited September 3, 2010 by supersop

[WOOHOO]

This is a discussion forum about all things drum corps. Whether you can do anything about it or not is irrelevant to the argument. You say you enjoy the shows ... I would say I enjoy a fair number of them as well. Do I enjoy them as a purist of drum and bugle corps? No. Do I enjoy them is highbrow forms of entertainment for the educated fan? Absolutely.

I'm just wondering where this new market is that Hoppy is talking about. "Come see our Pre-Show .. it's the greatest thing on Earth!". Ya .. have fun trying to sell that to the masses of non fans.

BTW, being a fan automatically qualifies you as somewhat educated to the activity. In being a fan that merely enjoys the shows ... what are you doing on a discussion forum debating the issue if you deem yourself irrelevant to the points of the argument and just someone who enjoys the shows and can do nothing about the things being debated??

Imagining that a corps director is sick of losing money for over 20 years as being reason enough to bastardize the idiom is fatally flawed. The people you are talking about run a NON profit organization. They seek out donations and generate revenue to cover the expenses of non profit activities .. which includes spending 35k per week touring the country from their budget ... which they know full well is PART of the natural budget process. As Mr. Mason said, "If you want to go Pro .. fine go do that but leave DCI alone." If these same directors wanted to make measurable change in a positive direction, they would revisit what has worked in the past and do their part to make those things happen again. They would also take a long hard look at what has changed for the worse and how that took place. A total overhaul is something you do as a last ditch effort when the ship is nearly sunk ........ and based on the limited financial data we have available to the public, DCI is in the same general financial shape or better than it has been in the past 15 years.

Someone please explain to me what all this barking is really about other than smoke and mirrors?

Being a fan may make you educated, but it doesn't mean your opinion matters towards the direction of the activity. I know mine doesn't.

The problem I see is not making a profit, it's not losing as much money as they do. There is a middle ground here you seem to not acknowledge.

[garfield]

I, as a fan, don't need to trust it. My trust level is completely irrelevant. I don't work for DCI, or any of those corps. I just try to enjoy the shows, and I do. If you don't, that is too bad. You should probably take those ideas to someone who can do something about it, and not try to convince me, because I can't do anything to help you.

I agree. As a fan, if that's all you're going to be, you don't feel compelled or even interested in things such as the business side of drum corps.

And, if that's the case, why are you posting alternatives here, or suggesting that the rest of the fan base - the "active" fan base that's attempting to find solutions - should be just as passive as you seem to be?

It's pretty clear that the "passive" fan base contributed, with their passivity, to the state we find ourselves in now.

Further, does it make sense to you that not questioning the leaders ability might just lead to the death of the activity, thereby stealing your ability to be even a "passive" fan?

At some point you have to get involved if you want real solutions.

[Jeff Ream]

not only that, but...it seems like every new change involves spending more and more money to keep drum corps going...and not always in the right ways.

here we see guys who claim the model they vboted on is broken, costs keep going up...then they keep putting systems and rules into place that cost even more money.

drumc orps needs to be run like a business, not a charity.

again...sometimes you have to see the past to see where you screwed up, and learn from it...but they don't learn. they just keep trying to reinvent the wheel, and in turn, driving costs further upward

I'm pretty sure the poster said 0.1% now .. with potential for 5% (if they quit messing with the idiom and market properly).

Regardless of whether those figures are right or not .... you totally missed the posters point.

Btw, 5% of America is 15.5 million potential fans. Yeah I think that would make a dent in the current crisis figures.

Let's see ... 15.5 million spending $200 on average every year. That's how much money in tickets, souvies, dvd's/cd's/fan network/apd's/vod's/whatever?

Answer: $3.1 BILLION

Now let's be realistic .... 3.1 billion bucks might be 35% of all revenue in the live music market (not including rock/pop/country stars and performing artists) I'm just talking the "general" performing arts in this country. So let's make a goal of 1%. That's still $620 million in revenue. How many more shows could you put on the map? How many corps could you seed? wouldn't spending some money wisely in the marketing end of the budget make sense if you're going after a meager 1% of the entire population of the United States of America?

The problem was NEVER that people didn't care about drum corps. The problem is/was that people didn't KNOW about drum corps. The larger masses who DID know about it and did support it have passed away or become jaded toward what the activity has become and is becoming. SO let's get back to talking business 101 ........ SPEND MONEY TO MAKE MONEY. I never read in that manual anywhere that said, "Sell your soul and constantly change who you are and what you represent in order to rebrand yourselves to people who already support you". This line of thinking only results in loss of return business. In Business 101 this is also known as EPIC FAIL!

Try again :) Thanks for playing.