Renegades

[LisaLisaMoMeesa]

I don't think the Renegades have yet to turn in a first place performance. I also don't think there has been a Renegade performer or fan here who has yet to turn in an opinion that they have.

That being said, the fact that people say "Well, they haven't paid thier dues yet" or "it's hard to judge them because the judges don't see them all year" (I don't even know what that means) tells me that the 10 or 11 corps that are marching on that field THAT NIGHT are not being judged based on their performance THAT NIGHT and THAT NIGHT alone.

I've known, since my first day of involvement, that the Renegades is alot of people's favorite corps to hate. Why? There's not enough hours in a day. And I'm certainly not the final authority on this. But the things I'm going to list below may be actual fact or they may just be perception, or both.

1) They fly in the face of tradition.

2) They all think they're beautiful rock stars.

3) The "evil" "vampire" "Seven" thing is over done.

4) They're from California.

5) They haven't paid their dues.

6) They have (or had) too many rabble rousers in the corps.

7) They turn out messy (insert here: horns, marching, battery, pit, guard, what ever)

What ever the reason, for some folks, the Renegades could find the cure for cancer and they'd still hate the Renegades.

Truth be told, with the exception of 2003, I don't think the corps has ever turned in a better than Top 3 performance, but I also don't think the Renegades have ever gotten a placement they deserved . And there are tons upon tons folks that agree with me (tho many of them do it in private because if their corps ever knew they were a supporter, they'd be disowned. LOL).

It's just the way it is.

Rock on.

[SFZFAN]

They deserved 10th.

Were you even there?

[Fastone]

Where you place in a competition is out of your hands once you perform. If the Renegades were happy with their finals performance, they should live with that. Brooding over the placement would only serve to blight the memory of a great performance.

[NYSkyliner]

As someone who has judged a few contests in my day, perhaps this may answer the question. In using the word "deserve" the connotation infers that a placement in a competitive event is a form of punishment. Thus deserving 10th place, becomes a totally negative outcome without any merit. In every contest someone comes in last. That's how we do it. The notion of competition in drum corps is to produce better corps, programs, and performances, not to punish anyone.

So from my viewpoint, no corps has ever deserved to the one who finishes just outside of Finals. No corps has ever deserved to be last in a contest. That's just the wrong way to view how competition works in this activity. Whether a corps comes in the 10th spot at DCA or finishes higher, it doesn't change their performance or the audiences perception of it. It is what it is. To discuss the DCA Finals within such a framework misses the broadside of the barn.

Well then Jeff, with your logic concerning the negative connotation of the word "deserve", then it goes without saying that Reading "deserved" first place??? Glad you're not judging a literature exam.

[LisaLisaMoMeesa]

Further....was just reading in a Kidsgrove Scouts thread about how they would have placed higher "had the judges seen them more times than just prelims and finals".

I don't even get what that means. As a judge, are you judging for "improvement over the last time you saw them"? Don't you judge the show you see on the field before you?

Can somebody explain this to me?

[melligene]

Further....was just reading in a Kidsgrove Scouts thread about how they would have placed higher "had the judges seen them more times than just prelims and finals".

I don't even get what that means. As a judge, are you judging for "improvement over the last time you saw them"? Don't you judge the show you see on the field before you?

Can somebody explain this to me?

LisaDearestLisa........Only saw prelims. Renegades are one of my favorite Corps' to see/hear/watch. Sorry to say.........they didn't have it this year. Somewhat smaller horn line but, as mentioned in another thread, seemed somewhat fatigued and/or energy problem.

Given their schedule it is understandable. I have many friends in the Renegades and those I know will have to admitt their performance was really not up to snuff.

I understand your position but..........(still not sure about 10th place) it is what it is. They just didn't have it.

[NYSkyliner]

Further....was just reading in a Kidsgrove Scouts thread about how they would have placed higher "had the judges seen them more times than just prelims and finals".

I don't even get what that means. As a judge, are you judging for "improvement over the last time you saw them"? Don't you judge the show you see on the field before you?

Can somebody explain this to me?

I think that yes, improvement over the last time you see them is taken into consideration. Whether it is appropriate or not who can really say. On the other hand, if a slate of judges who never judged ANY of the Corps were to judge just DCA Prelims & Finals only, and no other shows, would that be fair? Gotta find a happy medium. Competition is just that, competition. If you're gonna compete you gotta be willing to "suffer the slings and arrows".

[LisaLisaMoMeesa]

if a slate of judges who never judged ANY of the Corps were to judge just DCA Prelims & Finals only, and no other shows, would that be fair?

How would it be UNfair? The show that is being put on the field THAT night is what's being judged. Isn't that what should be done?

As for the slings and arrows....trust me, the Renegades don't spend that much money to come clear across the country year after year to not know how to deal with slings and arrows.

It should be noted that (unless the few heare w/o any identifying names in their signature and I don't know who they are, which is entirely possible) there aren't any 2010 Renegade performers in this thread "whinning" about their placement.

[chasgroh]

I think that yes, improvement over the last time you see them is taken into consideration. Whether it is appropriate or not who can really say. On the other hand, if a slate of judges who never judged ANY of the Corps were to judge just DCA Prelims & Finals only, and no other shows, would that be fair? Gotta find a happy medium. Competition is just that, competition. If you're gonna compete you gotta be willing to "suffer the slings and arrows".

Mike's right. What did Kidsgrove come up in a week, 7 points? Hey, they knocked *my* lights out, but I'm not so sure they'd have the horses to get another spot 3 1/2 points away...'specially if it's an on-fire Cabs. Cabs were pretty dang crazy-good Sunday, I thought...

...AFA 'Gades, they'll handle it...

cg

Edited September 7, 2010 by chasgroh

[HBD]

As someone who has judged a few contests in my day, perhaps this may answer the question. In using the word "deserve" the connotation infers that a placement in a competitive event is a form of punishment. Thus deserving 10th place, becomes a totally negative outcome without any merit. In every contest someone comes in last. That's how we do it. The notion of competition in drum corps is to produce better corps, programs, and performances, not to punish anyone.

So from my viewpoint, no corps has ever deserved to the one who finishes just outside of Finals. No corps has ever deserved to be last in a contest. That's just the wrong way to view how competition works in this activity. Whether a corps comes in the 10th spot at DCA or finishes higher, it doesn't change their performance or the audiences perception of it. It is what it is. To discuss the DCA Finals within such a framework misses the broadside of the barn.

WOW, Jeff Mitchell is alive and well. Miss talking to you!

Jay