wackywords Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Again, we don't have any numbers of how many have left to go to SCV so, why don't we just wait and see? Considering that SCV's previous line might all be coming back, shouldn't there be some consideration given to them as "returning" vets over newbies? I'm just sayin! im pretty sure there wont be much leeway given to the SCV vets from the previous year. i would think that paul wants the best players, no matter how much experience they have, or if they marched the previous year. and i think there were like 3 or 4 snares that didnt age out, 1-2 quads/basses, and a few in the pit. so its gonna be a fight to get those other spots at vanguard. i would assume theyre going to be really good right out the gate next summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevingamin Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 How do we define success in this situation, for both Shane and Paul/Sandi? With SCV, there is a definite expectation that the Rennicks will take that percussion program to "the next level". SCV has not placed higher than 6th in percussion since Jim Casella left after the 2004 season. Paul Rennick has written the champion battery book three times in the past five years, so, even with a first year dropoff as the Vanguard drum line adjusts to the new writing style, he definitely has a cushion from a placement standpoint which makes defining a successful season easy. Over at PR, Shane Gwaltney is coming from a program which has flown under the radar over the past few years as Spirit has been out of Finals after 2007. There was a lot of buzz in '08 when Spirit's drum line consistently placed in the Top 12, which tells me that Shane and his staff knows how to squeeze out as much achievement from their players as possible. That will be a great asset to Shane as he is taking over a program which, as mentioned above, has been very successful in recent history. If Shane has to work with less experienced and/or talented players than Paul had, he seems to be the right guy to take that situation and make it a positive. One thing for sure is that Shane's definition of success in 2011 will be very different from Paul's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TastyWaves Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 I think both groups will be fine. Both Caption leaders have been at it a long time, and they are both surrounded by talented arrangers and instructors for their sub-sections. I think PR might see a small "dip" in quality simply because they have been at such a high level for such a long time. Not to say they cant be as good or championship caliber programs again and very soon, but I think it might take a year or two to get used to. Shane has done a great job everywhere he has been up to now so I do believe he will do well. It will be interesting to see how he does with this classical style. Paul did a great job with that style which was a strength. SCV does a totally different thing, but Paul is very experienced all around so it will be cool to see what he does with that esoteric style. Frankly, I am excited! On another note, I have LOVED SCV's last few percussion ensembles. Any word on what that staff is up to next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noneofyourbusiness Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 One thing people seem to be overlooking is the lines other than SCV and PR. Bluecoats were cooking last year and should be again this year, Cadets are always solid under McNutt/Moyer, BD is always great with ScoJo around, Crown still has Beddis, the Cavies were called "young" last year by many so they should be getting older (right?), and Aungst/Larrivee have won a bunch in the past and now have a second year (or is it third?) at Blue Stars. Does everyone think these lines will just lay down and let SCV jump over them simply because they have Rennick? Since Gwaltney has not beaten any of these lines in the recent past, is there any reason to think he can now? And, how is the vet retention and recruiting going at the other top 8 lines this winter? Just some food for thought............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madbass4 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 (edited) Phantom's percussion didn't do well around 2001 and 2002 and hired Paul from Carolina Crown starting in 2003. Every returning snare vet did not make the line - and a new snare line of 9 seasoned corps vets from Carolina Crown and Spirit (from JSU at the time) - to name a few organizations - created the new snare line (a PR horn sergeant nicknamed them the "L.A. Lakers" of Snare Lines). The percussion program went from a 10th place finish under Brian Mason (I believe) in 2002 to a 5th place finish in 2003 under Paul. Paul's ethic has always been that the best player gets the spot, and he's even had to cut veterans if they couldn't maintain their potential. SCV's percussion has not been performing well competitively since 2004, from what one of the posts had said. Paul has now taken over, and many veterans from the winning-PR percussion program have followed him, just as many drummers from the Carolina Crown and UNT organizations had done in 2003 to Phantom - so they can drum with the best and learn from the best ("best" in their minds, of course). There are some PR veterans who have chosen not to follow Paul because of personal reasons - however, from what I've heard from other veterans - there is not one veteran remaining with the PR percussion program under Shane Gwaltney. SCV's percussion program took a 10th place finish under Brian Mason in 2010, and we will see where it goes in 2011 under Paul. We can always say that Loyalty is in the Eye of the Beholder? Edited January 1, 2011 by Madbass4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincoln Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 The percussion program went from a 10th place finish under Brian Mason (I believe) in 2002 to a 5th place finish in 2003 under Paul. SCV's percussion program took a 10th place finish under Brian Mason in 2010, and we will see where it goes in 2011 under Paul. We can always say that Loyalty is in the Eye of the Beholder? Paul Rennick has replaced Brian Mason twice?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywords Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Paul Rennick has replaced Brian Mason twice?... thats exactly what i was about to ask. so is this more of a "saving the day" thing for rennick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doylejd Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Paul Rennick has replaced Brian Mason twice?... Yes, and I have been saying since the beginning that it was a move in poor taste for SCV to make if only for that reason. I love Brian Mason's writing and think he has produced some of the most musical percussion books in the activity recently. You can't seriously say that the product he put out in 2009 wasn't great and that the technique and style presented by Gusseck and Ramey wasn't effective. I maintain that the reason SCV did so terrible last season was by not letting its members march WGI and Vanguard. They lost so many vets because of it, and no matter who you are, you can't make a bunch of rookies a top 5 drumline. Sure, this move will help Vanguard jump up a few spots, but was it really necessary? The people marching Vanguard were enjoying marching Vanguard because it had become a pinnacle of percussion innovation and pedagogy in the marching field. Now Vanguard will be backed by Phantom's drumline. Sure, they'll be good and clean, but they'll be run of the mill like many of the other top 12 groups. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywords Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Yes, and I have been saying since the beginning that it was a move in poor taste for SCV to make if only for that reason. I love Brian Mason's writing and think he has produced some of the most musical percussion books in the activity recently. You can't seriously say that the product he put out in 2009 wasn't great and that the technique and style presented by Gusseck and Ramey wasn't effective. I maintain that the reason SCV did so terrible last season was by not letting its members march WGI and Vanguard. They lost so many vets because of it, and no matter who you are, you can't make a bunch of rookies a top 5 drumline. Sure, this move will help Vanguard jump up a few spots, but was it really necessary? The people marching Vanguard were enjoying marching Vanguard because it had become a pinnacle of percussion innovation and pedagogy in the marching field. Now Vanguard will be backed by Phantom's drumline. Sure, they'll be good and clean, but they'll be run of the mill like many of the other top 12 groups. see, in a way i feel that ever since vanguard won in 2004, they have been trying to ride the coat tails of that title, not realizing that the talent level wasnt there. im not sure if vanguard always had this "no wgi" rule, but if so, they won drums without people doing it. so i feel that this change is will not only restore the greatness of vanguard percussion, but also propel the program waaaaay ahead of where it has been standing in recent years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TastyWaves Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 see, in a way i feel that ever since vanguard won in 2004, they have been trying to ride the coat tails of that title, not realizing that the talent level wasnt there. im not sure if vanguard always had this "no wgi" rule, but if so, they won drums without people doing it. so i feel that this change is will not only restore the greatness of vanguard percussion, but also propel the program waaaaay ahead of where it has been standing in recent years. Trying to ride the coat tails? Thats an ignorant statement. How in the world could you possibly arrive at that conclusion? Nothing about the entire corps has been anything like 04, ESPECIALLY the percussion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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