Jeff Ream Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Thank you. See, I'm in the same boat as you. FWIW, I'm a member of one of the Top 8, and I was jumping at the chance for more shows, more chances to perform. That's why I'm in this, being able to perform at a top level with my best friends all summer, so I still think this is a great thing. Nothing against the lower corps, I've been in that position to perform in front of empty stands, but even then, there's no way I would turn down the chance to perform more, or see more drum corps over the summer. Wasn't everyone complaining about the lowering number of shows per summer? Well, here it is. More shows, 8 more, enjoy them. well, 8 more for 8 of them. the other 15, well, sorry guys, stay on the road and incur costs while making no money 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) their claim I believe was "historical placement"...tho really, Crown, Coats and Blue Stars are newcomers to being a perennial top 8 team. While I suspect someone outside the 8 may be one of them come Indy time, I highly doubt over the life of this concept we'll see more than one or two spots have a rotating membership. I believe that once the G-8 is in place this year, they'll be no change in the Corps within the G-8. That's what I think. But we'll see. I also believe that this is a destructive road DCI is on, and it will only hasten it's ultimate demise. One can't have essentially 8 super duper Corps and have long range stability and vitality in any competitive endeavor where there is not that much movement in placement from year to year, except for 1 or 2 competitors. Staleness sets in. And that's not a recipe for an activities success at all, imo. What brings true excitement is the unpredictability of who will emerge in a competitive endeavor. Without it, people ultimately get bored and leave to seek out other competitions where the placements have much movement up and down from one event to the other, and from one year to the next. DCI has seen several hundred Corps compete over the last 40 years. The fact that only 3 Corps ( BD, Cadets, Cavies ) have won over 80% of all the titles the last 40 some odd years speaks not only to these 3 Corps excellence, it also speaks to the staleness in the activity regarding movement in placements at the very top. Edited January 23, 2011 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 well, 8 more for 8 of them. the other 15, well, sorry guys, stay on the road and incur costs while making no money And if you read the rest of it, it's exactly what the DCI fans have said that they want. The Top 8 corps. No offense to the other 15, but they don't make the same ticket sales, the same attendance numbers, and i think the member corps and DCI realized this, and are trying out this new show concept, to max out the profits and attendance. Maybe if this works out, they'll expand it to the other 15 corps. I'm not sure, I don't see into the future, but if you do, the Super Bowl is coming up, and I'd really love to make some bets on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I believe that once the G-8 is in place this year, they'll be no change in the Corps within the G-8. That's what I think. But we'll see. I also believe that this is a destructive road DCI is on, and it will only hasten it's ultimate demise. One can't have essentially 8 super duper Corps and have long range stability and vitality in any competitive endeavor where there is not that much movement in placement from year to year, except for 1 or 2 competitors. Staleness sets in. And that's not a recipe for an activities success at all, imo. What brings true excitement is the unpredictability of who will emerge in a competitive endeavor. Without it, people ultimately get bored and leave to seek out other competitions where the placements have much movement up and down from one event to the other, and from one year to the next. DCI has seen several hundred Corps compete over the last 40 years. The fact that only 3 Corps ( BD, Cadets, Cavies ) have won over 80% of all the titles the last 40 some odd years speaks not only to these 3 Corps excellence, it also speaks to the staleness in the activity regarding movement in placements at the very top. This paragraph capsulizes the entire "rub" of those that are against "all things G7". The motivation is honest and well placed but the argument is (if I can borrow your term)...stale. First of all, this is NOT going to cause the demise of DCI...just because some old bods (I'm one too) on DCP say so. The influence of DCI is international and it is yet to be tapped and brought into the fold. This will happen when they figure out how to make it cost effective. Additionally, the argument that the stands are full of largely old MM's that must be catered to in order to survive is... poppy ####. If DCI is nothing more than a memory machine and corps need to #### well play and march within some framework of acceptabilty...it will be stale. Thank God for a few corps willing to buck the tide of sameness. Finally, your argument about "movement in placements", though factual , is flawed. This ain't T-ball. You win because you're the best...not because it's your turn. You want to drive away fans..go ahead and make a corps the champion that is not deserving simply for a new face or "excitement of the unpredictable". Yes, I know as well as anyone the ABBD sentiment at finals...I get it. I also know that won't change as long as it's in Indy. But giving the championship to the Cavies wouldn't satisfy your argument either, they're still one of those top 3. What you should be asking is...where are the designs that are championship worthy other than the usual suspects? Yes, Bloo made a run this year and in some other year would have won. CC made a run last year and some other year would have won....but other than PR's brief moment, we have what we have. PR, SCV and Madison are re-building and will challenge sometime soon, but I don't think... tomorrow. Bloo and CC might... if they fight the urge to go traditional. So...you want exciting competition? Unpredicablity? Encourage the designers to push the envelop and stop dumbing down the effort by attempting to punish those that do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 PR, SCV and Madison are re-building and will challenge sometime soon, but I don't think... tomorrow. Bloo and CC might... if they fight the urge to go traditional. I guess we're leaving out cadets. That's probably a good thing in the short run (atleast here on DCP!) lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 DCI has seen several hundred Corps compete over the last 40 years. The fact that only 3 Corps ( BD, Cadets, Cavies ) have won over 80% of all the titles the last 40 some odd years speaks not only to these 3 Corps excellence, it also speaks to the staleness in the activity regarding movement in placements at the very top. The US men's Olympic basketball team has won the gold medal over 76% of the time since 1936. I mean, seems pretty stale to me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basketball_at_the_Summer_Olympics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 What brings true excitement is the unpredictability of who will emerge in a competitive endeavor. No one is psychic and there will always be unpredictability. Aren't you excited to find out which World Class corps has the potential to over throw BD's two time winning streak? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I guess we're leaving out cadets. That's probably a good thing in the short run (atleast here on DCP!) lol! Actually, I ignored them as they are one of the top 3. I only mentioned Cavies to support my argument. Brasso's thought was that (paraphrased) "people are sick of the same corps winning and want excitement back at the finals decision". My answer is...rise up to challenge the best and take it from them! As Boo pointed out in the sleeve notes on the DVD...this was the highest scoring top 12 in DCI history...the problem for so many of the challengers was that the top 3 took it up another notch. All of this is great for drum corps....not orchestrating selections for the sake of thrilling endings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerguy315 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) It is entirely competitive. I believe you must be in the top 8? for two consecutive years (or something like that). In any case, it's about acheivement of excellence and any corps can challenge. As a matter of fact, I would have expected to see Madison & BAC jump into this group fairly soon, along with the usual suspects that hover on the bottom third on finals night. corpsband asked where Plan9 got his information, Plan9 responded: Slide #9 Again, this was the intial proposal.....not anything like current experimental components. Hey...you asked! The reality is that, as you can see, it is not "entirely competitive." It is actually "whatever the G7 corps want, via a vote." I provide slide 35 of the powerpoint for my citation, where it reads: The board of DCI can by 2/3 vote relocate a corps to a different class for performance or other reasons. Participation within the organization can be granted or withdrawn by the board by a vote of 2/3. Do you see this? This means they can move any corps to wherever the f### they feel like, for whatever reason they feel like. Edited January 23, 2011 by soccerguy315 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soccerguy315 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) And if you read the rest of it, it's exactly what the DCI fans have said that they want. The Top 8 corps. No offense to the other 15, but they don't make the same ticket sales, the same attendance numbers, and i think the member corps and DCI realized this, and are trying out this new show concept, to max out the profits and attendance. Maybe if this works out, they'll expand it to the other 15 corps. I'm not sure, I don't see into the future, but if you do, the Super Bowl is coming up, and I'd really love to make some bets on it. What are you going to say if fans skip out on corps 6-8 at the TOC shows? Fans only want the best of the best, so the shows should be cut down to 5 corps? Then 3 corps? If there are only 8 corps, then #8 becomes the worst. just to be clear... I am not against the current TOC reality when looked at individually. I think it could be good. I am against trying to kick the rest of the few drum corps that are left (8-? in WC and all of OC) to the curb to make a super circuit that has one show a night and travels around the country together, which I think is what the original G7 proposal would do. And because the thoughts and plans have been laid out to (IMO) kill off and trivialize all the other corps, I cannot support the TOC as it is clearly (to me) the "first step in the process." If they came out with the TOC idea without this powerpoint proposal... I would probably be a supporter. Edited January 23, 2011 by soccerguy315 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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