Jeff Ream Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Not IMO. True fans accept and embrace the activity, they don't trash it at every opportunity. Acoustic is just not important in the grand scheme of things, IMO. Its plain silly to whine and complain about it...again, IMO. incorrect. fans of an activity that has changes thrust upon them they don't like are still true fans Mike. to many fans, no electronics IS important, no matter how much you try and duck, dodge, parry and thrust. Sure, after doing so you may feel like the Red Pimpernel, but in doing so, you look more like Daffy Duck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 The above is the reason DCI has to target itself as much as possible at the MB world, since that is where the audience and future MM are drawn from. Local circuits are not going to spring up in this day and age...they failed because they became expensive and irrelevant to those who had the same or better experience in their HS bands. 4,000+ competitive bands versus 400+ competitive corps...I'll take the 4,000+ any day, since that means many more are marching and competing today than ever before. the smart choice is to target the kids AND the legacy fans. kids are fickle, and you will only hook so many of them.DCI can not afford to lose what they gain...if the numbers even equal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 When you choose to change someones post, you should at least make it obvious what is being changed. Use bold or a different color. You are wrong in that change BTW...the number is far fewer than you try and make it appear. IMO of course. and we've seen your opinion shot out of the water multiple times. face it Mike...the directors themselves are saying it's broken. Yet they pushed for all of the changes. So, where is the wisdom in all of those changes if it's broken? (I'm patient, I'll wait for you to have time to spin it better than a politician could) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 You forgot the "IMO". I answered you the same way that you posted. So what? Drum corps has always staged events in conjunction with, or in the vicinity of, other conventions or festivals. The San Antonio focus show is one example, scheduled to coincide with the Texas Bandmasters Association convention. Evidently, your narrow view of "history" is based on your own selective memories. My view of history goes back to 64, seeing shows in person...not reading old clippings from drum corps newspapers. First of all, I did not say that every ordinary show outdrew today's DCI finals. Secondly, when I said "back then", I was referring to the 1950s. Your memories seem limited to the 1970s and late 1960s, and predominantly Garden State Circuit shows. I'm sorry that there were some GSC shows that didn't draw well....but there were some that did better than the examples you give. Just the crowd response on recordings proves that much. You really have NO idea what local small drum corps shows were like in the 60's and 70's, it seems. Listening to old records and reading old clippings is hardly going to give you an idea what it was like. Bottom line is that you weren't there. [Now, for some historical data as reported in Drum Corps World. These are all ordinary five-corps shows (not national, state or circuit championship contests), all held in the Rochester, NY, area. 6/15/57 drew between 14,000 and 15,000. 7/27/57 drew 15,000. 6/28/58 drew 17,000. 7/5/58 drew 14,000. (Whoops, sorry, this show only had 4 corps competing.) 8/9/58 drew 10,000. (Like I said, not every show outdrew modern-day DCI finals.) 7/4/59 drew 11,000. 9/5/59 drew 15,000. You have ANY idea how accurate those numbers are? What was used as the basis for those numbers? No. Just what you saw in a paper. Were they true counts, or guesstimates based on...what? I have been attending shows since 1964...local ordinary shows just did not draw those kinds of crowds. They would not fit in the normal venues of the day. Special shows? Sure. There were a few held in larger venues back in the day...sorry...they just were not the 'ordinary' shows you are trying to foist on us. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) incorrect. fans of an activity that has changes thrust upon them they don't like are still true fans Mike. to many a small number of fans, no electronics IS important, no matter how much you try and duck, dodge, parry and thrust. Sure, after doing so you may feel like the Red Pimpernel, but in doing so, you look more like Daffy Duck. Fixed it for you. Edited February 3, 2011 by MikeD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 and we've seen your opinion shot out of the water multiple times. Sorry....no. face it Mike...the directors themselves are saying it's broken. Yet they pushed for all of the changes. So, where is the wisdom in all of those changes if it's broken? (I'm patient, I'll wait for you to have time to spin it better than a politician could) No, they do not say the small changes these past few years have 'broken' anything...they think that more and larger changes are what is needed to try and improve DCI. The few items added are part of the continuum that has been happening for many decades, predating DCI. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Sorry....no. No, they do not say the small changes these past few years have 'broken' anything...they think that more and larger changes are what is needed to try and improve DCI. The few items added are part of the continuum that has been happening for many decades, predating DCI. ..and meanwhile Nero is contemplating sending in the fire truck but is too busy trying to fit woodwinds into.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I answered you the same way that you posted. Not even close. I supported my contention with a fact (that the AL/VFW organized separate drum corps and marching band contests at the same point in time). You responded with no facts, no support....just the basic "no, I'm right and you're wrong". My view of history goes back to 64, seeing shows in person...not reading old clippings from drum corps newspapers. Not willing to look past your own narrow perspective? You really have NO idea what local small drum corps shows were like in the 60's and 70's, it seems. Listening to old records and reading old clippings is hardly going to give you an idea what it was like. Bottom line is that you weren't there. You weren't there either, Mike. 1. I'm talking late 1950s. You weren't involved until 1964. 2. There were hundreds of corps, and hundreds of shows each year all over the USA. What tiny percentage of them were you personally involved in? 3. Listening to old "records" (or master recordings, in my case) tells me precisely what I said it does....that not every GSC show was held in a parking lot with 50 spectators. Whether the audience numbered 500 or 5,000 cannot be determined from these particular recordings....but it sure wasn't 50. 4. As for "old clippings"....no, I have taken the time to study the activity's history, gather a library of drum corps publications from back in the day, and compile data, in order to expand my perspective beyond my eyewitness experience. What have you done to expand your view? You have ANY idea how accurate those numbers are? What was used as the basis for those numbers? No. Just what you saw in a paper. Were they true counts, or guesstimates based on...what? Obviously, those head counts are rounded to the nearest thousand. So "14,000" might only be 13,500....or it could have been 14,500. Does that matter in this context? I have been attending shows since 1964...local ordinary shows just did not draw those kinds of crowds. They would not fit in the normal venues of the day.Special shows? Sure. There were a few held in larger venues back in the day...sorry...they just were not the 'ordinary' shows you are trying to foist on us. In case I wasn't sufficiently clear....these were shows with ordinary five-corps lineups. I'm not saying they had ordinary attendance. Similarly, I wouldn't presume that the 48,000 drawn to 1958 Legion Nationals was ordinary....nor was the typical late-1950s Dream crowd of between 20,000 and 30,000. But for those who have no idea what drum corps' drawing potential was back then, it is interesting to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Fixed it for you. denial. not just a river in Egypt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Sorry....no. uh yeah. many times No, they do not say the small changes these past few years have 'broken' anything...they think that more and larger changes are what is needed to try and improve DCI. The few items added are part of the continuum that has been happening for many decades, predating DCI. oh puhlease. if national touring isn't working...they changed it...and thats not small. all the new toys...they changed it, and that's not small. sometimes continuing to change for the sake of change is NOT a good thing. But those doomed to ignore the past will keep repeating those same mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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