SFZFAN Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Because wc corps make more money. ___ Claiming to be "better every day" is not the same thing as actually being better every day. To become a winning corps, Pioneer will have to stop doing what clearly is not working , and start doing the things that winning wc drumcorps do. ___ Pretending that show sponsors are wanting to PAY wc show fees to a drumcorps with 16-20 horns is nieve. ___ HOWDY, I believe they have already made some positive changes in staff for this season. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecoats88 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 y. To become a winning corps, Pioneer will have to stop doing what clearly is not working , and start doing the things that winning wc drumcorps do. ___ Do you mean like what Suncoast, Magic, Southwind, Sky Ryders, 27th Lancers, Freelancers, VK, Dutch Boy, Florida Wave, etc.... all did to become a winning corps. How's it worked out for those groups? Yeah Pioneer may not have the competitive aspect of Drum corps perfected right now, but they are a corps that is celebrating their 50th anniversary and have watched other "more Succesful" corps drive themselves right out of existence to become "more Successful". I'd much rather those other corps did the things Pioneer did rather than the other way around, then maybe we'd have more than 23 world class corps now. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexL Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Because wc corps make more money. ___ Claiming to be "better every day" is not the same thing as actually being better every day. To become a winning corps, Pioneer will have to stop doing what clearly is not working , and start doing the things that winning wc drumcorps do. Pretending that show sponsors are wanting to PAY wc show fees to a drumcorps with 16-20 horns is nieve. ___ It wouldnt surprise me if there are eventually changes made to reflect this. I think situations like this were part of the complaints in the g-7 proposal. And while overall that proposal had many, many flaws, there are certainly things they were accurate about too. Fact is, a corps that consistently fails to be remotely competitive (not just one year, but we're really talking a long term pattern here) is bad for business for both DCI and the show sponsors, and the money it receives should probably reflect that. Could be as simple a change as 'must be world class and a semifinalist to receive appearance fees', or just an altering of the money structure. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexL Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) doublepost Edited June 23, 2011 by AlexL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgarside83 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 In my opinion, Pioneer and Surf should consider competing in Open class, as I don't believe their corps model allows them to be any more successful than they currently are. It's not all about competition, but it is a competitive activity. Why not compete where they can really compete consistently? Pioneer def. put out a larger, higher quality corps, in my opinion, when they were in Div 2. I think kids were more attractd to joining a corps who could contend in Div 2 than one who couldn't compete with the practice schedule, touring schedule and budgets of the Div 1 corps. I mean, why be in world? What is it doing for them? What direction are they going? Seems to me like these 2 corps opted to move up to World class, but did not adapt to World class, and with their Open class models, where are they going? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdy Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 HOWDY, I believe they have already made some positive changes in staff for this season. Re: Please, whoever you are (Jeffrey??) , call me Mikey or Michael. Pio changed a lot of their staff (many of the new staff I am not very familiar with) this year, and so far they have dropped in numbers, and in scoring about 10 points. Only time will tell if on the field Pioneer will continue with this 10 point spread from their scores from last year. I wish Pioneer well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdy Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 In my opinion, Pioneer and Surf should consider competing in Open class, as I don't believe their corps model allows them to be any more successful than they currently are. It's not all about competition, but it is a competitive activity. Why not compete where they can really compete consistently? Pioneer def. put out a larger, higher quality corps, in my opinion, when they were in Div 2. I think kids were more attractd to joining a corps who could contend in Div 2 than one who couldn't compete with the practice schedule, touring schedule and budgets of the Div 1 corps. I mean, why be in world? What is it doing for them? What direction are they going? Seems to me like these 2 corps opted to move up to World class, but did not adapt to World class, and with their Open class models, where are they going? Why be in wc? Again because wc corps receive money from DCI (I think including a $50,000.00 bonus each year ), while open class corps do not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFZFAN Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Re: Please, whoever you are (Jeffrey??) , call me Mikey or Michael. Pio changed a lot of their staff (many of the new staff I am not very familiar with) this year, and so far they have dropped in numbers, and in scoring about 10 points. Only time will tell if on the field Pioneer will continue with this 10 point spread from their scores from last year. I wish Pioneer well. Micheal, If your DCP handle is HOWDY why do you get so pissy when people call you HOWDY? You know you can change your DCP name any time you want. My name is Tim, thanks. I also wish Pioneer well - I hear Charlie Groh is on staff there now. That can only be good! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdy Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) It wouldnt surprise me if there are eventually changes made to reflect this. I think situations like this were part of the complaints in the g-7 proposal. And while overall that proposal had many, many flaws, there are certainly things they were accurate about too. Fact is, a corps that consistently fails to be remotely competitive (not just one year, but we're really talking a long term pattern here) is bad for business for both DCI and the show sponsors, and the money it receives should probably reflect that. Could be as simple a change as 'must be world class and a semifinalist to receive appearance fees', or just an altering of the money structure. Very insightful. Big name corps like the Blue Devils drive fans to drum corps shows. These fans pay up to $50.00 + a ticket just to attend one show. Not to be disrespectfull to Pioneer, but most drum corps fans who pay those kind of ticket prices do not want to see a drumcorps with 16-20 horns (but a few fans might want to). Edited June 23, 2011 by Howdy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdy Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) Micheal, If your DCP handle is HOWDY why do you get so pissy when people call you HOWDY? You know you can change your DCP name any time you want. My name is Tim, thanks. I also wish Pioneer well - I hear Charlie Groh is on staff there now. That can only be good! Tim I politely asked the DCP mods to change my DCP handle. They declined. That is why I added Call Me Mikey to my signature. Almost all drum corps people now call me Mikey. Thanks for understanding. ___ from Pioneers website: "Charlie has a Bachelor of Arts degree in communication/Journalism from California State University. He has been affiliated with the visual staffs of the Velvet Knights, Anaheim Kingsmen and Hawthorne Muchachos. In addition, he was the co-founder of both the West Coast Express and Impulse Drum and Bugle Corps. " Re: Charlie's resume' looks very good. I wonder what years he was with these drumcorps. I wish him well. Edited June 23, 2011 by Howdy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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