Tom Brace Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Wasn't talking about everyone has to sit and watch all corps (thus sayteth the guy who doesn't attend WC ). But I have seen posts where people (not Bruckner) say the DCI should only worry about or support the top corps as they are DCIs main money maker. Sounds nice until you realize the health of DCI and activity itself depends on more than 10 or so corps. Well, to a great degree this is getting to be more and more the way it is. Excellence and the pursuit of competitive excellence is where this comes from. No longer is a member of, let's say, the Racine Scouts able to march there a season or two and go to Madison, Cavies, Regiment. They can go to Pioneer to get better. Then they can go to Madison, Cavies, Regiment? Probably not. They might have to go to Colts or maybe fly down to Texas and march Crossmen. Then maybe...in their ageout year, they might be good enough. So, what's the shortcut? Where does drum corps instructor teach? Be in that band, be in that ensemble....plan your whole freakin' high school and college education around getting to work with that instructor. Only shortcut I know of. Those who study under Paul Rennick at UNT, get in his drum corps lines. Is it right? Wrong? I don't think it's either. It's just where we have evolved to in terms of the competitive pursuit of excellence. The ONLY thing I would see that would change DCI to be a dramatically different organization, is to have the judges ONLY evaluate the instructors and how they teach and the effectiveness of their teaching...an arc from the beginning of the season until the end. Never score the corps. No scores...no competition. Just performance and excellence in performance. The reward...a grateful audience cheering and bolting to their feet. Dream over. When's that judges panel meeting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Main part of my point was even the best corps had to start somewhere. And for BD it was 24th in 1973 and they were not there in 1972 (corps started 1971?). BUT... if people consider 24th as sucky why bother coming out and getting that 24th place then? They key, I think, is for corps growth. Blue Devils were in 24th place for one year before making Finals, and in Finals for two years before winning. While that is an abnormal pace of growth, looking at the history of the current Top corps you see similar patters: * Cavaliers - missed finals in 78 and haven't really turned back since * Cadets - sporadically in and out of finals from 72-79 then turned it on, won, and haven't turned back since * Carolina Crown - started as Div. 2 (or 3?), won their class, jumped to World Class finalist, struggled to get out of Top 6, dropped out of Finals, haven't really turned back since. The list is on and on. If you are a corps that hangs out in last place or the bottom of the pack then you need to adapt/improve or risk folding. Those corps serve a great purpose, and few will argue their worth, but there is no future in being constantly last/poor quality. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Has anyone noticed how BAD the 12th place corps of the 70s sound? And there were 380 corps WORSE than that? IMO, I really wouldn't care if only 10 corps are left, as long as all of them are AWESOME… Waiting for the "respect the kids" crowd to respond to this post. they wont because they are also the "we want only the very best" crowd Why should Bruckner have to “respect the kids”? Those “kids” are in their 50s and 60s as he writes. They are adults who’ve lived most of their lives since they left the buses and bugles behind. They’ve suffered performance reviews and marriage counseling. We can argue the validity of his opinion (not me, I agree). We can’t claim he should hold back because his opinions reflect on youthful experiences. The 70s classes have their memories. What about the memories of today’s members? They get to remember their shows along with the running commentary of legacy malcontents. It’s not like the old days when the echo resounded no farther than the immediate neighborhood. Back in the day, they didn’t have any DCP or even RAMD to explain all the shortcomings. The worst they had to contend with was the old codger who just didn’t get drum corps in the 70s. At least his voice didn’t carry far. Today’s members have simultaneous and eternal notations ascribed to their performances. The fond memories of their youth are dissected, explained and altered even - not for them but for us. There is no comparison. No respect was missing in the 70s. They got theirs. The same can’t be said for today. HH 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Well, to a great degree this is getting to be more and more the way it is. Excellence and the pursuit of competitive excellence is where this comes from. No longer is a member of, let's say, the Racine Scouts able to march there a season or two and go to Madison, Cavies, Regiment. They can go to Pioneer to get better. Then they can go to Madison, Cavies, Regiment? Probably not. They might have to go to Colts or maybe fly down to Texas and march Crossmen. Then maybe...in their ageout year, they might be good enough. And don't forget kids cutting their teeth at the DCA and Alumni-type level either. Can't argue with the way you described it, just a reminder that there is a greater level of interaction with non-DCI corps than many realize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) They key, I think, is for corps growth. Blue Devils were in 24th place for one year before making Finals, and in Finals for two years before winning. While that is an abnormal pace of growth, looking at the history of the current Top corps you see similar patters: * Cavaliers - missed finals in 78 and haven't really turned back since * Cadets - sporadically in and out of finals from 72-79 then turned it on, won, and haven't turned back since * Carolina Crown - started as Div. 2 (or 3?), won their class, jumped to World Class finalist, struggled to get out of Top 6, dropped out of Finals, haven't really turned back since. The list is on and on. If you are a corps that hangs out in last place or the bottom of the pack then you need to adapt/improve or risk folding. Those corps serve a great purpose, and few will argue their worth, but there is no future in being constantly last/poor quality. But that's long term planning...<end of sarcasm>. Some here feel that if any corps is out of the top "magic number" then that corps is unworthy of any support. Or more to my point never in that "magic number" because the corps is just starting out (reason why I picked 1973 BD). So any new corps is unworthy or "shouldn't bother" (can still hear that 35 years later) because they have not hit the top group. Edited February 5, 2011 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankBeMe Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 And don't forget kids cutting their teeth at the DCA and Alumni-type level either. Can't argue with the way you described it, just a reminder that there is a greater level of interaction with non-DCI corps than many realize. But that doesn't count because it's shhh sr corps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I never thought I'd see rudeness defended....but here we go: Why should Bruckner have to “respect the kids”? I'm sorry....you're right. Respect is only required in deference to your viewpoints. Those “kids” are in their 50s and 60s as he writes. They are adults who’ve lived most of their lives since they left the buses and bugles behind. They’ve suffered performance reviews and marriage counseling. We can argue the validity of his opinion (not me, I agree). We can’t claim he should hold back because his opinions reflect on youthful experiences. I see. So while it is wrong to criticize the young adults of today's DCI corps, it is perfectly OK to unleash any amount of venom against older people. Just so I know, where is the dividing line between those age groups? When do we "age out" of civility? The 70s classes have their memories. What about the memories of today’s members? They get to remember their shows along with the running commentary of legacy malcontents. It’s not like the old days when the echo resounded no farther than the immediate neighborhood. Back in the day, they didn’t have any DCP or even RAMD to explain all the shortcomings. They had a number of national/worldwide publications dedicated to the drum corps activity, with opinion articles, show reviews and letters to the editor all affording the opportunity for criticism (constructive or not) to get into print. Arguments were even aired in print (much more slowly than today, of course). Today’s members have simultaneous and eternal notations ascribed to their performances. The fond memories of their youth are dissected, explained and altered even - not for them but for us. There is no comparison. No respect was missing in the 70s. They got theirs. The same can’t be said for today. I have no choice but to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you never read a drum corps newspaper in the 1970s. The level of criticism was at an all-time high then, as it seemed that for many writers, they proved their status by how thoroughly they could insult every corps short of DCI title contention. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 It does? I can't think of one. I have yet to see one poster put forth the hypothesis: "Excellence is ruining drum corps." well, to many the quest for technical perfection has taken out the enjoyment in it. the emotion if you will. so how's this tag line: "we'll be technically awesome, but you may not want to cheer loudly" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Paying fans already determine excellence. When they go out for a hot dog, or into the parking lot when lesser placing corps are performing, they, whether they recognize it or not, are making a determination. And, they are hurting those kid's feelings. Sad little drum corps kids with no one to watch them perform...kind of like kids who ride the bench at baseball. The message to both groups...get better. some are, but never get a chance to show it off because only the top are marketed, and "the lot" has become this awesome thing. ya know, where people play #### standing still well, when they can't play the easier stuff well on the move Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Yeah, that had a LOT to do with marketing, I think. I'm originally from Columbus, and I can tell you that the product of their AAA baseball hasn't improved over the years: I grew up watching Don Mattingly, Derek Jeter, Bernie Williams, Jorge Posada, etc. play to moderately-empty stadiums. Now they team (affiliate with the Cleveland Indians and no longer the Yankees) has a beautiful stadium in prime real estate and sells-out frequently. Minor League baseball teams (with help from their MLB affiliates), and local communities have really gotten a grasp on how to market their product. so DCi needs to learn from minor league baseball. actually that could be cool....come see DCI at Local bank handheld fan night!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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