dcialumni1989 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Okay, I hear what you're saying, but it's SCV's decision what they want to put on the field and how they play their horns. Maybe they're just going back to being the VANGUARD of the activity, pushing the envelope in horn playing and show design. Ever since 2009, they've taken a new direction, of taking their source music, and putting it straight onto the field instead of chopping it all up, and writing drill that organically works with the music. Instead of being the "Do exactly what everyone else is doing and playing loud"GUARD, they're taking new music, and presenting it in a new and exciting way. That's just me though, everyone feels different on show design. Ok. So, you basically spelled out exactly what my problem is with SCV right now. They are not being the VANGUARD of the activity. They are being The Cavaliers past of the activity. The drill writer and corps director are old cavaliers. The Visual staff is old Cavaliers guys (many of which used to be on brass staff there, including the caption head). The brass staff are all old cavaliers too. The way they are playing their horns is not new. It is how those same guys did it from 2001-2009. The way they march is not new either. It is the way that the cavaliers marched for years. The problem that I have with it is it's not Vanguard. It is a copy of what was done somewhere else. I get it, The Cavaliers had a recipe that worked there for a while and won a whole bunch. However, it stopped working and that led to some folks being let go. Lots of those folks are now at SCV trying to recreate the same magic. The problem is, there are some pretty important parts of that old puzzle that are not there AND the activity as a whole has moved on. Also, anther thing I loved about SCV was that they would stimulate me both intellectually AND emotionally from a musical standpoint. They are certainly taking care of the intellectual part, but the emotion is simply not there. When Andre Feagin was there, he had them playing their horns very well. They were also loud enough to communicate to the box. They did not blow their horns apart. They made great sounds and played loud (when appropriate). It is possible. They did it last year. It does seem like a distant memory though. I love the Vanguard. I have loved The Vanguard for a long time. My problem is that I feel like they are trying to be someone else. There are some other corps that I don't really care for because I don't like their style, but I appreciate that it is their style. For example, I generally don't like Phantom Regiment. I have no problems with the corps, I just don't care for their shows generally (even though once in a while they strike gold: Spartacus). Now, if Regiment started doing jazz shows or british brass band music or geometric drill (all things that I like), I would have a problem with that. Image, history, and tradition isn't everything in this activity, but it is important. Anyways, just my opinion. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 I love the Vanguard. I have loved The Vanguard for a long time. My problem is that I feel like they are trying to be someone else. There are some other corps that I don't really care for because I don't like their style, but I appreciate that it is their style. For example, I generally don't like Phantom Regiment. I have no problems with the corps, I just don't care for their shows generally (even though once in a while they strike gold: Spartacus). Now, if Regiment started doing jazz shows or british brass band music or geometric drill (all things that I like), I would have a problem with that. Image, history, and tradition isn't everything in this activity, but it is important. Anyways, just my opinion. Okay, guess that's one way of looking at it. You can say what you want, but they will still be SCV. You can say they're just trying to be the Cavaliers, but most of us don't see it. The visual style, is actually closer to the old-school SCV style than the straight-leg marching from before 2008. And under Andre, they played quietly. I remember tons of people moaning and complaining about how they didn't play loud in '09, except for the ending. But people still love that show, it's been one of their best. Musically, they're still the Vanguard. Has anyone else heard Dorman, Jenkins, or Ligeti on the field? DIdn't think so, and no one knows how to put those ideas on the field better than SCV. Would you rather they just go back to playing Phantom of the Opera every year, with white pants, and marching straight leg? It's not going to happen, it really won't. They're still pushing forward in the way that only they can, and that's the way it will always be. You can say what you will, but I still love them, and I know they'll keep putting out engaging, wonderful, artistic programs for years to come. And i know many others are with me. All my opinion, as usual. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldskl3rings Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 SCV needs to be SCV. Not the West Coast Cavaliers, South Bay Blue Devils or the reincarnated Star. We have our own history and tradition that I would stand up to anyone! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Great job tonight SCV! 84.05!!!! Awesome score! Less than a point behind Bluecoats! Keep climbing that staircase guys, good luck in Texas. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcialumni1989 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Okay, guess that's one way of looking at it. You can say what you want, but they will still be SCV. You can say they're just trying to be the Cavaliers, but most of us don't see it. The visual style, is actually closer to the old-school SCV style than the straight-leg marching from before 2008. And under Andre, they played quietly. I remember tons of people moaning and complaining about how they didn't play loud in '09, except for the ending. But people still love that show, it's been one of their best. We can definitely agree to disagree. I do see them as the west coast cavaliers. You do not. That's ok. It sounds like you are either a current member, very recent age-out, or still of the age that you can march. You are very loyal to the corps. That is great! You should be! I was very loyal to my corps for years. I still am, but I look at them a different way then I used to. When I was young I looked at them in a way that they could do no wrong. Now, I look at them as my team that I will always pull for and support, but I also embrace the things that we traditionally don't do well, or we need to improve at. The difference is perspective. I aged out 20 yars ago, so what a different perspective on the activity as a whole. I have seen lots of corps change. Some for the better, some for the worse. As this relates to SC: When I saw them in 2009 I thought that they were going back to their roots and performing a show that only Vanguard could do. I loved it. Last year was also similar in the regard that it was true to the original and something that only SCV could do. It wasn't the best show IMO, but some years you miss, and that is ok. As far as your comment about people complaining about SCV not being loud enough in 2009, I can buy that. They weren't super loud, but I didn't care because they played well and played with emotion. I could care less about volume as long as it is A) Reaches the box B) balances with percussion & C) communicates emotionally. They did that in 2009, so I could care less about hwo loud they were. Musically, they're still the Vanguard. Has anyone else heard Dorman, Jenkins, or Ligeti on the field? DIdn't think so, and no one knows how to put those ideas on the field better than SCV. Would you rather they just go back to playing Phantom of the Opera every year, with white pants, and marching straight leg? It's not going to happen, it really won't. They're still pushing forward in the way that only they can, and that's the way it will always be. I have heard the music of all of those composers. I like that music. I don't think it fits well on the field, but I like the originals AND I think they stayed fairly close to the originals. As far as going backwards? No. I don't want that. I do not want white pants, phantom of the opera, or straight leg. If you have really read what I am saying I think you would get that is not what I want. I want Vanguard to be Vanguard. What that means may be different to you than it is me, and that is ok. I just see them as being like someone else. That is my beef. You can say what you will, but I still love them, and I know they'll keep putting out engaging, wonderful, artistic programs for years to come. And i know many others are with me. All my opinion, as usual. You should love them. That is your corps. Believe it or not, I love SCV too. I have for a long time. They are a corps that I always look forward to seeing every summer. If I didn't care for SCV, I simply wouldn't talk about them at all. For example, I don't really care much for The Crossmen or The Glassmen. Nothing against them. They just aren't my cup of tea. Because of that, I couldn't tell you anything about them. I have nothing to say about them, because I have no opinion about them. Anyways, you should definitely love your corps regardless. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Sounds good. We all have our thoughts on the same corps, both good and bad things. I'm looking forward to the rest of the season, and seeing what Santa Clara can do with this program, I have high hopes for it. Wouldn't mind it if they get to the Top 5, and can maybe push for a medal next year, with the right show. Go SCV! Climb that staircase guys! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Maybe if they would stop firing and shaking up the staff every year due to "unsatisfactory results", we might see and hear "greatness" again. Rome was not built in a day. Give the current staff 3 years to actually build (and give the kids 3 years to get used to the staff) and perhaps the design as well as the execution would be better and get the results we want. All I've seen for about the last 10 years of SCV is a huge revolving door. You can't build a championship corps in just one year no matter what your "name" is. I agree that the staff needs to be stable there for a while, which is what they seem to be working on. I disagree that you need to give the 'kids' 3 years to get used to the staff. Many many members are only doing 1 or two years of corps these days. I'm sure that we'll see "championship quality" performances from them soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowtown Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 and writing drill that organically works with the music. Could you explain your usage of organically there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Could you explain your usage of organically there? Yes I can. By organically, I mean that the drill and the music are married together. You can watch the show on mute, and almost see the music in the drill. The way that Pete writes, he uses the music, and paints a picture off of it. Watch any of the shows he's designed for SCV, and you can watch the music develop and flow on the field. Just my feelings, I've always been a fan of his work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowtown Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 Isn’t that the goal of every drill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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