Accessible vs. Avant-Garde

[chaddyt]

So which is more to your liking? And maybe more importantly, how do you define them?

Can a corps be both, or is it one or the other?

Keep it spirited, keep it clean, keep it h8r free, and keep it #WINNING!

[2B or not 2B]

So which is more to your liking? And maybe more importantly, how do you define them?

Can a corps be both, or is it one or the other?

Keep it spirited, keep it clean, keep it h8r free, and keep it #WINNING!

I think BOTH can be done. I was going to start a "New" Post, about "Theme Shows". But I think it would fit in here. (It is a bit of History and Opinion, on Then and Now.)

The FIRST real "Theme Show", was done by the "Yankee Rebels SENIOR Drum and Bugle Corps of Baltimore, MD.Believe it or not it was done in " 1969 ". Called "Requiem for an ERA". I will never forget it. The first time I saw it at Roosevelt Stadium, in Jersey City, NJ.First thing after the Honor Guard came on the field was about 10 "Flash Flags"(as many of us called them). They wore Confederate Soldier Army uniforms and carried 10 what looked like Confederate flags (with no Stars). There was a bunch of Booing. Then came 10 more flags. They were "Navy Jacks" (a full Blue field with 50 Stars. No Stripes. Used by the navy on the Bow, when a ship is in port) dressed in Union Army uniforms. So a bunch of cheering started. Then the main body of the Corps came out, in the usual White, with Orange trimmings. The show started with "Dixie". which again brought out the Boo Birds (But not for long) Then "Waiting For The Robert E. Lee" - "I'm Alabama Bound" - Alexander's Rag Time Band" - "Am I Blue" - "Birth of the Blues - "Camptown Races" - "Requiem For An ERA" - "When Johnny Comes Marching Home" - Battle Hymn of the Republic". When they were done I think all of the about 20,000 fans were on there feet going NUTS. Black, White, Young and Old.I thought WOW that was Great. But, I wonder how it is going to go over at Legion Nationals in ATLANTA,GEORGIA. Well, I got my answer in Georgia Tech Stadium. It was just as Big as in New Jersey. So, "Theme Shows" are Not NEW. Some other favorite's of mine were Santa Clara Vanguard's "Phantom of the Opera" Wow what a show, and "Fiddler On The Roof". Then even more Modern. Cavaliers "Machine", as just some of what can be done, and still Win both, Judges and Crowd. What is NEW, is the writers, of today RE Write the music so much now you can hardly tell what they are playing. Whether it be Classical, Pop, Broadway or Original.

Edited March 29, 2011 by 2B or not 2B

[NR_Ohiobando]

For the purpose of definition, I'm assuming Avant-garde things are meant to rebel against any and all standards set by history.

I voted for Avant-garde simply because we've never really seen a completely Avant-garde show (and likely never will). However, it's something new and exciting I'd really like to see at least once.

People will likely point out that BD actually played Avant-garde music in their 2011 show, and that it was a very "out there" show. But in terms of show design I see things that you'd see in any other show. There were clear cuts in the show for pacing (opening statement, drum feature, closer, etc.), the drill matched what the music said... I would say BD 2011 included "both".

In other words, it's unbelievably difficult to be truly Avante-gard nowadays. Everything you do is largely based on a huge history of music and visual ideas. And to rebel against ALL of those would be an unbelievable task. I think it would be far more common to see shows with "both" elements.

----------------

Just as an example: one of the most Avant-Garde things I've ever witnessed is a string quartet called "Wachstum und Massenmord" by Peter Ablinger. The program notes tell a ridiculous historic Greenlandic story about a woman who married a dog. However the entire piece consists of the string players rehearsing a single measure of impossible music for 15-20 minutes (complete with metronome). I loved it. Hilarious piece. It was probably Avant-Garde at the time of its first performance, but now it's just a piece of musical history.

[Lance]

yes

[corpsband]

I don't think these two-items are mutually exclusive. Perhaps 'esoteric vs. 'accessible' would have been a better choice?

[hostrauser]

I voted avant garde.

Cadets 2002 is considered one of the most "accessible" shows put on the field of the past ten years, but I found it cheaply pandering and overtly saccharine (and, with the exception of "Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy", boring as heck).

I'd rather watch dozens of shows like Glassmen 1999, Vanguard 2010 (etc.) before another show like that.

[BRASSO]

I don't think these two-items are mutually exclusive. Perhaps 'esoteric vs. 'accessible' would have been a better choice?

The two of " Avant- Garde " and that of " Accessible " need not be mutually exclusive either. It is entirely possible to be BOTH" Avant- Garde" and "Accessible " to fans. Not just in the Drum Corps idiom, but in other musical performance idioms as well. The Beatles, for example, after playing essentially " Accessible " music in their first couple of years, moved into a more " Avant- Garde " revolutionary realm with their music. The " Avant- Garde " style was still " Accessible " to millions of fans however as their success continued. Others however could never successfully navigate the journey. Bob Dylan for example, was initially successful in his early years playing a simple folk guitar as a solo folk artist and singing accessible songs of rebellion. He then went " Avant- Garde "( for it's time ) and abandoned his traditional folk guitar and picked up an electric guitar, plugged it it, and got himself a rock band ( then later a Counry- Western Band ). By any objective measure, his move was a collossal failure as he never really reached the success he had when he simply sang solo on his simple folk guitar. So here we have 2 contrasting examples where it's really in the presentation itself that determines whether something is well received by audiences. Something can be " Avant- Garde " and be a hit with audiences or a flop. The same is true of " Accessible " music. It can be a hit or a flop. It's all in the presentation, and the ability of the performer(s ) and designers/arrangers to pull it off.

Edited March 29, 2011 by BRASSO

[chaddyt]

I don't think these two-items are mutually exclusive. Perhaps 'esoteric vs. 'accessible' would have been a better choice?

I would agree with that. Part of the reason I put it out there for folks to define what these are to them. You're my new DCP thesaurus. :)

"Accessible" has been argued as a "dumbing down" or "pandering" to some degree, and while I can see where that comes from, I disagree. Accessible certainly can be the "known" or "familiar", but I look at it more as to whether or not an audience member can make a connection of some sort, on some level with what's being put on the field.

"Avant-garde" (or "esoteric") has been argued as "too cerebral" and "head-scratching" and folks complain that they don't want to have to watch a show 1,000 times to get it. I personally don't mind being challenged by any art form.

But I think drum corps CAN be both, and think they should strive to do so. It's finding that balance between the two that's the trick. Weird, artsy stuff for the sake of being weird and artsy is meaningless if the audience can't relate to it in some fashion. On the flip side, playing familiar stuff gets a bad wrap at times because that's probably the easiest and most sure fire way to make that connection and get a reaction.

I think corps like BD and SCV have most recently been leading the charge on the one end of the spectrum, while corps like the Cadets and Crown have taken the other. It's interesting to see other corps (Bluecoats, Cavies, and Blue Stars) begin to explore that middle ground.

I think 2011 will be a pretty kick butt year. :)

[lindap]

For the purpose of definition, I'm assuming Avant-garde things are meant to rebel against any and all standards set by history.

I voted for Avant-garde simply because we've never really seen a completely Avant-garde show (and likely never will). However, it's something new and exciting I'd really like to see at least once.

People will likely point out that BD actually played Avant-garde music in their 2011 show, and that it was a very "out there" show. But in terms of show design I see things that you'd see in any other show. There were clear cuts in the show for pacing (opening statement, drum feature, closer, etc.), the drill matched what the music said... I would say BD 2011 included "both".

In other words, it's unbelievably difficult to be truly Avante-gard nowadays. Everything you do is largely based on a huge history of music and visual ideas. And to rebel against ALL of those would be an unbelievable task. I think it would be far more common to see shows with "both" elements.

----------------

Just as an example: one of the most Avant-Garde things I've ever witnessed is a string quartet called "Wachstum und Massenmord" by Peter Ablinger. The program notes tell a ridiculous historic Greenlandic story about a woman who married a dog. However the entire piece consists of the string players rehearsing a single measure of impossible music for 15-20 minutes (complete with metronome). I loved it. Hilarious piece. It was probably Avant-Garde at the time of its first performance, but now it's just a piece of musical history.

I was listening to my old cassette tape of The Cosmos with Vangelis while looking through my Vasarely art book and there you go enticing me to the Sidetrack Cafe. Sheesh. How am I ever going to stay focused? wink ;-)

[Jeff Ream]

both is possible. How many people knew Bernstein's Mass in 1983? SCV's show in 99? Crown in 09?

I could go on. the list is long.

the shows that are legend had it all.