No more Tour Fee Excuses

[audiodb]

Bob: I mean this, I do have high respect for you and your corps, and thank you for this detailed explanation. That said, allowing an entity to gamble on the risk of going in the hole through hopeful fund-raising is still not a sound business practice; but for some reason many corps' are ran in such a manner and you have now decided to up that risk to a level never before seen in the activity with this plan. Setting dues at xyz and helping members who cannot afford those dues with fund-raisers to meet that obligation goal prior to them going out on tour is vastly different than allowing them to set their own price and then banking on them to kick in a huge extra effort to hopefully cover the rest of their costs through back-end fund raising. You might get lucky and this plan works once or twice and I hope the best for your corps; however, it will only take one time, just one time, for a majority of the members to fail in meeting their funding goals and the corps will be placed in a huge deficit situation. To me you should collect the money "then" commit to expenditures (not the other way around). That is why, even with your explanation, I still believe it is not a very good business decision.

The way you talk, you'd think every other corps has all their member accounts paid in full by the time they arrive for spring training. Show me one such corps....I'll be waiting with baited breath (and EMTs on call).

[audiodb]

• We've never turned away a prospective member due to financial challenges. In that regard, this program is no different.

• We don't have the luxury of allowing folks to stroll through the door free of charge, and we're certainly not going to throw away 21 years of debt-free existence by suddenly abandoning our values and good business sense and trying to spend money we don't have. Further, we would never take the corps on the road without delivering a safe and World Class experience. We don't cut corners at the expense of the corps members.

• The plan is relatively straightforward: members can name an amount which they think is fair and within reach, then we can agree on how much we'll need to fund-raise together to cover the total cost of participation. Let's create a solid game plan to achieve our goals and let's work the plan. There's no misrepresentation and no bait-and-switch... and we've had a few thousand kids go through the program doing it precisely this way.

• Each year including this one, several members are able to march for little or no out-of-pocket expense, by taking advantage of the numerous grass-roots fund-raising opportunities we provide. We're adding to that effort this year. Others may be able to take advantage of incentives for their parental involvement in key operational roles. We also have generous alumni and friends who contribute to make it possible for people to participate based on their willingness to work hard to achieve the goals and requirements of membership. Some of the corps members will raise funds this year to rollover for 2012 fees, and some will raise funds beyond their own quotas in order to help other corps members who fall short.

I was going to say this before you posted....this confirms what I thought.

I don't think what Jersey Surf is doing is fundamentally different from what has been done by every viable modern-era corps. They've just found a new way to market it.

[Stu]

The way you talk, you'd think every other corps has all their member accounts paid in full by the time they arrive for spring training. Show me one such corps....I'll be waiting with baited breath (and EMTs on call).

You are now touching on why many corps' have to fold. Participation in actual shows should be akin to putting something on layaway (you do not get to participate in actual shows until your bill is paid off in full), not akin to putting something on a credit card (you get to do everything "now" and concern yourself with paying for it later after the fact).

Edited April 5, 2011 by Stu

[Stu]

Ah yes, the negativity of DCP shines again. "Little to no personal involvement".....I didn't read that in any press release. I also didn't see it in any post regarding the subject. I believe, from reading what I have, that the members that may not be able to pay a full tour fee from the cash they have (or don't have), will be offered the participation in fund raising efforts to offset the lack of cash from the tour fee. I also read, that if the new member does not have the ability to participate in any fund raising (really a desire to participate issue I would guess), they may not be a member for very long.

Every single thing you do in life comes with positive and a negative potential outcome or result. But we, as a society, still try to do things that could come out bad. Measuring risk vs. reward - that's what we all do even if we don't think of it that way, that's what we do.

Just for once I would love to see every post, at least on a topic "potentially" as positive as this subject, was positive thoughts and well wishes for the idea. Would be strange for DCP, but would be a nice surprise..

Good luck Mr. Jacobs. If at any point I have the ability to help you out financially or otherwise, I would be happy to do so.

You want a supportive post from me then show me a corps that follows this structure: (The best way to care for the youth is to first and foremost keep the corps financially solvent by only spending what they 'already' have in the bank and use fund raising to keep the bank account in the black; because an insolvent corps in the red can offer them nothing). Sorry, but I cannot give you a supportive post concerning 'positive thoughts', 'well wishes', and the 'desire' to hopefully raise money in arrears through fund-raising while running the risk of placing the corps in the red.

[JamMan]

I didn't realize Surf had this big of a recruitment issue. Hopefully they can resolve it to stay in the game. Unfortunately, I can remember a certain corps from the east coast taking this philosophy and utterly failing at the fund-raising part. Everyone paid what they could (most times, nothing) and the corps barely ate. Then they folded. Hope Surf does it better!

[kaseyW]

I'm sure there's a base price.

[cowtown]

So you mean it’s not that way anymore?

This was kind of how it always was back when I marched why I had to sell frozen pizza, work a haunted house and all sorts of junk and the corps would always find away for a marcher to march

I really do get the feeling that today’s top corps are a cash grab hiding behind a non-profit, educational front…charge the kids, charge the audience, have the sponsors pitch in bucks, do some clinic and charge more kids everyone pays so we get paid and the staff gets bigger and fatter

Whats the average waistline for G-8 caption heads and directors?

I'd guess somewhere around 46"

[GUARDLING]

So you mean it’s not that way anymore?

This was kind of how it always was back when I marched why I had to sell frozen pizza, work a haunted house and all sorts of junk and the corps would always find away for a marcher to march

I really do get the feeling that today’s top corps are a cash grab hiding behind a non-profit, educational front…charge the kids, charge the audience, have the sponsors pitch in bucks, do some clinic and charge more kids everyone pays so we get paid and the staff gets bigger and fatter

Whats the average waistline for G-8 caption heads and directors?

I'd guess somewhere around 46"

Ever try to run things like corps or winter program in 2011?

Ever try to find a rehearsal facility?

Ever try to get a member to sell candy or whatever?( I wont say kid because its not the 12 yr olds of years gone by)

Alot different now than even 15 years ago. I hear this all the time and can't believe that anyone thinks ( not saying you ) our activity is any different from anything in life...the world is differnt and you adapt or retreat. Do designers, instructors directors get alot more than the past...yes many do but our activity isn't a pass time any more...hasn't been for years. It's a full time job to do it competitively.

[Jeff Ream]

Jeff: Thinking outside the box is sometimes a "good" thing. Such as, lets put Jeff Ream on a street corner wearing nothing but a thong Speedo and Groucho nose-glasses with a sign that says "I will put my clothes back on when we reach our xyz donation goal". However, thinking outside the box is sometimes a "bad" thing. Such as, lets tell "everyone" they can have something for little or no personal investment (Name Your Own Price) and we will certainly try to cover all expenses in arrears with various fund raising.

good news!!! People would pay more than needed to see me put my clothes back on!

now..where do you see no personal investment? the kids still have to fund raise and get sponsors. One way or the other, they have to come up with the cash or they don't get on the bus. Where do you see Surf saying people get a free ride?

Oh wait, you don't. So, you have now a situation where kids can work off what they owe in several ways. In the end, it's still on them to bring it all in.

if fees are $2300 and a kid says they'll fundraise it all, or pay part, fundraise a part and maybe get a sponsor to two, god bless them! To me, that kind of work ethic is exactly what makes drum corps so special. They want it that bad, however possible, they'll make it happen......and that''s what Surf is offering.

They're in a market where, despite what Wall Street says, the economy isn't booming, they have a World Class corps 90 minutes away and what...7 DCA corps within 2, 2 1/2 hours?

Good for Surf for thinking outside the box.

Oh, and for a fee, I'll stop poking holes in your inane theories.

[garfield]

You want a supportive post from me then show me a corps that follows this structure: (The best way to care for the youth is to first and foremost keep the corps financially solvent by only spending what they 'already' have in the bank and use fund raising to keep the bank account in the black; because an insolvent corps in the red can offer them nothing). Sorry, but I cannot give you a supportive post concerning 'positive thoughts', 'well wishes', and the 'desire' to hopefully raise money in arrears through fund-raising while running the risk of placing the corps in the red.

With even the biggest "top" corps crying poverty and needing more money from DCI, it's hard to believe many, and certainly not those below the top three, I'd guess, actually have a nickel left over from the prior season. To not plan or book a season, or a show, or the purchase of horns or equipment, or the buses to get kids to camps and tour because the corps doesn't have the money "in the bank" would mean the end of the activity. All but the largest charities run annually from hand to mouth and drum corps is no different.

Your plan for corps finances is unrealistic and has been for years. Nearly every charity runs its operations best when their appeal is the most realistic; many fewer donate to an organization that appears to be healthy, wealthy, and with money in the bank.

Under your plan for financing, Stu, we'd all most likely be sitting in the stands waiting for corps that never come.

(And Ream's sign should say "If I don't get $100 I'm taking my clothes off!" Financing would never be easier...)