The Other Mike Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 It is 100% realistic. You cannot find enough kids to fill even one retro corps, let alone a circuit. To think any real number of kids would be interested at all in this, other than maybe a one-off novelty, would be fantasy. I'm often a bit direct in what I say, but it is not unfounded. Every generation of kids want to be a part of what is innovative ... what pushes the limits of now... to explore the new and leave their mark, not recreate something from the past. I call BS. Most band kids want to push themselves to reach a goal and compete. ony a select handfull want / can march drum corps in it's present form either becuae of fitness or finances. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesBry Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 DCI 2020: Cesario: Do you not know that His Majesty has expressly forbidden ballet in operas? Hopkins: It's not a ballet, it's a dance at Figaro's wedding. Cesario: Exactly. A dance. Hopkins: Surely, His Majesty didn't mean no dancing when it's in the story. Cesario: It is dangerous to interpret his edicts. Give me your score, please. Thank you. Hopkins: What are you doing? What are you doing? Cesario: Taking out what you should never have put in. I love Amadeus, but you have the situation backwards. DCI has made it advantageous to put ballet into the opera whether or not you have ballet dancers in your company. And worse yet, there is no accounting for the ballet's effectiveness, how well it fits into the "story", and how well it connects with the audience. They aren't limiting what can be included, they aren't even judging whether it's good or not. Had Mozart written an "opera" that had nothing but dancing in it (with only about five or ten minutes of singing in a three hour work), I don't think we would be looking at it as the quintessential opera of the classical period. An interesting anomaly, perhaps, but neither the vanguard nor the standard-bearer. Similarly, when corps write shows that have 90 seconds of featured solos on synth woodwind or stringed instruments, or lengthy piano solos, I have to question whether or not we can even call that "drum corps" at all. Call it something else, and maybe I'll go with it. But don't call it drum corps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I call BS. Most band kids want to push themselves to reach a goal and compete. ony a select handfull want / can march drum corps in it's present form either becuae of fitness or finances. Suuuuuure kids want to be in the latest fad TOMike... That's why kids have been staying away from DCA in droves since 1974 when I joined a.... Senior corps at... 16... with a lot of kids my age???.... Wait a minute here..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 So we can put to bed the myth that this is what the kids wanted. Thanks - great info! The majority if the kids in this survey think that - the shows as they are are entertaining to average people - that there's a good balance now between visual and music - all but a handful come to drum corps after receiving their training in the local band program - as several of us have pointed out. (I have to agree with Daniel on one point; I've done lots of surveys and focus groups over the years, but some of these questions, if that's how they were asked, are next to meaningless. Which "traditions" are important? Guarding the colors was vital at one point, inspection was a thing we all sweated, horns had one valve - what, exactly, does 'tradition' mean, and from WHICH era is the tradition being pulled? Maybe they think that the shows being denser and the guard being more dance oriented is traditional....) And no one wants drum corps to be more like bands, because most bands suck in comparison to the best corps. It's not surprising that half of respondents strongly agreed that the two should be separate, but without more detailed questions in terms of WHICH aspects of band they don't like, the question doesn't mean much by itself. I'd imagine that for most kids, the two things they think of when they compare drum corps to band is woodwinds (very few people like the sound outside the concert hall) and the much lower level of acceptable execution, something band directors don't have a choice but to accept, given the makeup of their membership. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 There are always issues with a survey when it doesn't yield the hoped-for results. From quick phone surveys through plebecites to national elections. Every poll that has indicated that people are not satisfied with the direction of DCI has been dismissed as poorly conducted, too small a sample, insignificant as it was conducted on DCP - ad infinitum. It's a very stale argument.... I'm saying it is poorly conducted because I know the industry extremely well... developed a software platform for ad agencies, market researchers and major consumer brands to execute marketing campaigns and market research surveys... sold it to an international agency not that long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 (edited) However, even after three or four years, the new elements that have been added are still a thorn in the side of a lot of folks. This activity has been changed so that in many ways it only barely resembles drum corps of just five to ten years ago. I'd wager a $10 donation to your favorite corps that most kids marching this summer feel that what they're doing is pretty much the same as what the members from 2000-2010 were doing. I wasn't in favor of adding synths, and made some pretty aggressive comments to a few Board members I know about the question, but have to confess to finding that most corps this summer are doing a better job of integrating them than they did two years ago (there are a few obnoxious exceptions - Spirit, I'm looking at you - but by and large, they're figuring out how to make the idea work, imho. So if we're not talking retro in style, what ARE we talking about? Regional circuits? Great - but as has been pointed out ad nauseum, we're not even filling the ranks of the smaller regional corps who are already out there - hell, Pioneer can't even field a tenor line, and they're nominally a WC corps. I'd love to see a real survey done of every kid who shows up to audition for a Finalist corps and gets cut, because that's where you'll find the information about what would need to happen to fill another 15 or 20 corps nationwide. These kids are investing time to audition, then not marching when cut, and it's not like they disappear off the planet once that happens; they just decide to sit on the sidelines rather than participate. What, exactly, are they looking for, and what can the activity do to provide them with what they want and keep them involved as participants. Edited August 2, 2011 by mobrien 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 (edited) I'd love to see a real survey done of every kid who shows up to audition for a Finalist corps and gets cut, because that's where you'll find the information about what would need to happen to fill another 15 or 20 corps nationwide. These kids are investing time to audition, then not marching when cut, and it's not like they disappear off the planet once that happens; they just decide to sit on the sidelines rather than participate. What, exactly, are they looking for, and what can the activity do to provide them with what they want and keep them involved as participants. Few years back I asked this question at two(?) different times. Biggest response was the cost of belonging to a non-Finalist was about the same as a Finalist and it wasn't worth it $$$$ wise to not be in Finals. Next biggest was that it wasn't "worth it" (in non-money ways) especially if it was the only chance the person could be in DCI. IOW - my only year will be Finalist or stay home. Edit: Think I used "Dream Corps" instead of "Finalist"... Edited August 2, 2011 by JimF-LowBari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I call BS. Most band kids want to push themselves to reach a goal and compete. ony a select handfull want / can march drum corps in it's present form either becuae of fitness or finances. I say go for it then. Maybe I am completely wrong and kids would actually love to march 80's drill... and play the theme from Ice Castles 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeN Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 So make an easy change - make Quarters / Semis / Finals an all-corps show. It not only guarantees corps up to two extra performances, every corps will perform through the end of the season, guaranteeing that every marcher gets to march in the championships in their final show. It removes the stigma of Finalist marcher vs. non-Finalist marcher. And it might help the corps as well, considering how many sponsorships over the years have depended on whether the corps advanced or not. Honestly, I'm amazed they haven't done this yet. Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 So make an easy change - make Quarters / Semis / Finals an all-corps show. It not only guarantees corps up to two extra performances, every corps will perform through the end of the season, guaranteeing that every marcher gets to march in the championships in their final show. It removes the stigma of Finalist marcher vs. non-Finalist marcher. And it might help the corps as well, considering how many sponsorships over the years have depended on whether the corps advanced or not. Honestly, I'm amazed they haven't done this yet. Mike Do you mean adding Open class corps to the World Quarters? If so then I like this idea. The judges might find it a long day though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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