Santa Clara Vanguard - GE Music and Brass Scores

[IMcomguy]

SCV supporters all wish they would place better. Are you implying you think SCV sucked this year? Harsh? Yes. Fair? Not even close. Fact is there are very few performing organizations who could top what they did this year. I can only think of 5 in all of pageantry arts, worldwide.

Heck no, I'm not talking about SCV "sucking". I was trying to reply to the other poster who said it's all about "winning", by me saying corps directors should at the very least (at this level) be concerned about going backwards or perhaps flying off in some direction in terms of design that might not be the right one.

I have no idea if this was a right or wrong design decision as far as SCV's team is concerned. That's up to them to decide.

I do think there are corps out there that should be concerned with quote on quote "not sucking" in that context, such as the Glassmen... perhaps Blue Stars... that kind of directional shift that didn't work out quite so hot this season.

[ShortAndFast]

All I'm going to say to people thinking SCV isn't up to par, they're still 40 for 40 in DCI finals, and they're lowest placement ever in 8th place. Look at most of the other corps out there. Cadets didn't make Finals consistently till 1980, and started in 10th. Cavaliers had some "dark years" in there before coming to the top. Phantom was in 9th just two years ago, and in the late '90s, they really slipped far. Madison has missed Finals 3 times now, and are just now trying to re-build. The only corps really more consistent than SCV has been the Blue Devils, but that's a different story.

I applaud SCV for being the only corps in history to make EVERY SINGLE FINALS IN DCI HISTORY! It's a record that they extend every year, and will never be matched, unless they fold. Santa Clara has always been one of the best corps in DCI, and they will continue to do whatever they need to do to survive, and educate kids, and entertain audiences.

This is all very true - 6th place this season is nothing to be ashamed of.

I'd also like to say that I have loved SCV's designs the last two years. They were my favorite show in 2010, and they're definitely up there this year. Challenging music? Sure. But a strong presentation of it and a visual program that really responded to and interpreted the source material. It's OK for corps to have their own distinct styles.

My complaint with SCV has been that they put some great stuff on the field, but struggle to clean it and perform it at a top level. I think they need to figure out how to better match the design to what their members can achieve. I think staff consistency is part of the way you get there - get people in place who can build strong programs in each caption and give them time to build them.

[fsubone]

This is all very true - 6th place this season is nothing to be ashamed of.

I'd also like to say that I have loved SCV's designs the last two years. They were my favorite show in 2010, and they're definitely up there this year. Challenging music? Sure. But a strong presentation of it and a visual program that really responded to and interpreted the source material. It's OK for corps to have their own distinct styles.

My complaint with SCV has been that they put some great stuff on the field, but struggle to clean it and perform it at a top level. I think they need to figure out how to better match the design to what their members can achieve. I think staff consistency is part of the way you get there - get people in place who can build strong programs in each caption and give them time to build them.

Yeah, they did beat 35 other corps in prelims, that's nothing to be depressed about.

Yes, staff consistency is the thing I think they're working towards now, putting staff in place that can be there for multiple years, instead of just one or two. The reason corps like BD and Cadets have been so successful is that staff consistency. When the whole staff knows how to work together that well, they can do everything, and clean any show, because they know how to balance with each other. I think if SCV keeps this staff for 3-5 years, then they will be in harmony enough to really put out some crazy good shows.

[badoo]

It's now an educational activity. That's the biggest BS lie ever told. 30 or 40 years ago corps took in kids who had never touched a musical instrument or stepped on a football field (well maybe to play football). Staffs had to teach how to read music, how to breathe, how to make a sound and how to march. Corps today are full of music majors who have been marching for years. How does playing the same 10 minutes of music over and over again for three months or more make the members better musicians? Hate to tell you but from the time the first competitive DC circuit was formed members learned how to work as a team, how to produce under pressure, how to work for something you really care about. Oh, could that common goal be winning a championship? If winning isn't important, why DCI doesn't sack all the judges and just put together a series of exhibitions? Competition is what drives DCI. It's the reason the member's work their fannies off for hours and hours to gain a half point. DC has always been a breeding ground for music educators. Many of the people I marched with now teach. I marched with a guy you may have heard of, Wayne Downey. Try telling Wayne competition doesn't mean crap.

Here's my three rings. 1970 America Legion National Champions, 1971 VFW National Champions and 1973 DCI Champions. Here's a little history lesson. Prior to DCI there were 2 championship shows, the American Legion and VFW. Truthfully the VFW was considered the championship. Unfortunately the 70 VFW was held in Miami and SCV couldn't afford to travel to the show, which was won by the Troopers. We saw the Troop three times in the mid-west. We lost once, by penalty. We won once outright and they won once outright. Since we didn't get to see who was top dog in Miami, I count the AL championship as a ring.

I concur with actucker, I couldn't possibly care less about the number of rings you won, or whatever title you want to put in front of that ring. I am more concerned about the kind of message you are projecting with your simple minded ideal of competition. You seem to think it is about beating the other guy. I personally think we should leave that attitude to the concussed jocks of the world. We are musicians. We must think about grander goals, like being the best performers and designers we can be, and let the competition fall as it will. One mentality will be eternally disappointing, the other eternally fulfilling. I prefer to be fulfilled.

Edited August 15, 2011 by badoo

[fsubone]

So, you going to take over? You going to go volunteer to be on staff or run the corps, to "put them right?" If not, stop complaining. Unless you're willing to actually do something about it, you're just playing armchair quarterback on the Internet. I'm going to be marching, what are you going to be doing to help the corps?

So, I asked oldskl3rings to answer this question earlier, but he keeps ignoring it, so I'll post it again. If he has all of these problems with the direction and staff of SCV, would he like to take over the reigns, or volunteer to be on staff? Unless you're going to offer solutions, all you're doing is #####ing, trying to act like you're better than everyone else because you marched in the 70s. If you want things done, man up and offer solutions, instead of taking shots at people on the Internet.

[oldskl3rings]

I concur with actucker, I couldn't possibly care less about the number of rings you won, or whatever title you want to put in front of that ring. I am more concerned about the kind of message you are projecting with your simple minded ideal of competition. You seem to think it is about beating the other guy. I personally think we should leave that attitude to the concussed jocks of the world. We are musicians. We must think about grander goals, like being the best performers and designers we can be, and let the competition fall as it will. One mentality will be eternally disappointing, the other eternally fulfilling. I prefer to be fulfilled.

Oh you poor little babies! Did I bruise your self esteem? Like it or not competition is about winning. Any football fan can tell you that the Steelers have 6 Super Bowl rings, the 49ers and Cowboys have 5. How many remember that the Bills went to 4 consecutive Super Bowls (lost all 4)? Life is competition. “We are musicians.” What a stupid and arrogant statement. Do you think musicians are somehow above competition? Wait until you audition for that once in a lifetime symphonic spot. How about when you turn in your resume, for that ever more infrequent music teacher positions, that states you spent three years with xyz corps, a DCI World Class organization and the next person’s resume states they spent three years as a member of the Concord Blue Devils and won 2 DCI World Championships. If all else is equal, whose resume has the edge?

SCV has a wonderful history full of many traditions. At one time winning was part of that tradition. Every time SCV entered the field of competition and the announcer said, “…is the corps ready?” Everyone knew they were about to witness one of, if not the top corps in the country. That hasn’t been true for too many years. The creative staff (including the director) at SCV gets paid top dollar for producing top (winning) programs. I don’t believe they have held up their end of the bargain.

I spent four years as a marching member, but more importantly I spent two years as President. In those two years I put in over forty hours a week, each and every week (all volunteer) and helped guide the organization through some very difficult times. I believe I have earned the right to critique the current staff. I plan on sending my thoughts to the BOD.

As far as becoming a member of the creative staff, thanks but that’s not my line of work. I do however have a suggestion. Part of SCV’s tradition and success was the exploration of music by Russian composers. I would love to see SCV do something from Shostakovich. Here’s a link to a piece I’d love to see:

[KAW]

Oh you poor little babies! Did I bruise your self esteem? Like it or not competition is about winning. Any football fan can tell you that the Steelers have 6 Super Bowl rings, the 49ers and Cowboys have 5. How many remember that the Bills went to 4 consecutive Super Bowls (lost all 4)? Life is competition. “We are musicians.” What a stupid and arrogant statement. Do you think musicians are somehow above competition? Wait until you audition for that once in a lifetime symphonic spot. How about when you turn in your resume, for that ever more infrequent music teacher positions, that states you spent three years with xyz corps, a DCI World Class organization and the next person’s resume states they spent three years as a member of the Concord Blue Devils and won 2 DCI World Championships. If all else is equal, whose resume has the edge?

SCV has a wonderful history full of many traditions. At one time winning was part of that tradition. Every time SCV entered the field of competition and the announcer said, “…is the corps ready?” Everyone knew they were about to witness one of, if not the top corps in the country. That hasn’t been true for too many years. The creative staff (including the director) at SCV gets paid top dollar for producing top (winning) programs. I don’t believe they have held up their end of the bargain.

I spent four years as a marching member, but more importantly I spent two years as President. In those two years I put in over forty hours a week, each and every week (all volunteer) and helped guide the organization through some very difficult times. I believe I have earned the right to critique the current staff. I plan on sending my thoughts to the BOD.

As far as becoming a member of the creative staff, thanks but that’s not my line of work. I do however have a suggestion. Part of SCV’s tradition and success was the exploration of music by Russian composers. I would love to see SCV do something from Shostakovich. Here’s a link to a piece I’d love to see:

Once again, I'm telling this issue isn't limited to SCV. The discussion is a symptom of a much broader social issue and I think many drum corps struggle with it. The issue is it has become politically incorrect to state that you want to bury the competition, to state that anything less than an "A" in math is unacceptable, that the process is more important than the result; as long as you're growing as an individual then the result is less important. Johhny can't read or write but he's really very happy with himself.

[badoo]

Oh you poor little babies! Did I bruise your self esteem? Like it or not competition is about winning. Any football fan can tell you that the Steelers have 6 Super Bowl rings, the 49ers and Cowboys have 5. How many remember that the Bills went to 4 consecutive Super Bowls (lost all 4)? Life is competition. "We are musicians." What a stupid and arrogant statement. Do you think musicians are somehow above competition? Wait until you audition for that once in a lifetime symphonic spot. How about when you turn in your resume, for that ever more infrequent music teacher positions, that states you spent three years with xyz corps, a DCI World Class organization and the next person's resume states they spent three years as a member of the Concord Blue Devils and won 2 DCI World Championships. If all else is equal, whose resume has the edge?

SCV has a wonderful history full of many traditions. At one time winning was part of that tradition. Every time SCV entered the field of competition and the announcer said, "…is the corps ready?" Everyone knew they were about to witness one of, if not the top corps in the country. That hasn't been true for too many years. The creative staff (including the director) at SCV gets paid top dollar for producing top (winning) programs. I don't believe they have held up their end of the bargain.

I spent four years as a marching member, but more importantly I spent two years as President. In those two years I put in over forty hours a week, each and every week (all volunteer) and helped guide the organization through some very difficult times. I believe I have earned the right to critique the current staff. I plan on sending my thoughts to the BOD.

As far as becoming a member of the creative staff, thanks but that's not my line of work. I do however have a suggestion. Part of SCV's tradition and success was the exploration of music by Russian composers. I would love to see SCV do something from Shostakovich. Here's a link to a piece I'd love to see:

I guess you just don't get it. Too bad.

Just to say it, if you make a hire based simply on what corps someone marched, shame, shame, shame.

Good corps have bad members, too.

Edited August 15, 2011 by badoo

[badoo]

Once again, I'm telling this issue isn't limited to SCV. The discussion is a symptom of a much broader social issue and I think many drum corps struggle with it. The issue is it has become politically incorrect to state that you want to bury the competition, to state that anything less than an "A" in math is unacceptable, that the process is more important than the result; as long as you're growing as an individual then the result is less important. Johhny can't read or write but he's really very happy with himself.

I don't think it is politically incorrect to talk of burying the competition. I think it is terribly short sighted. I think winning a competition for many fans seems to excuse the important issue at hand: being a perfect performer.

Like I brought up earlier, 2001 Cavaliers had quite a poor hornline, IMO. Does the fact that they win mean they had a good hornline? No. The two have nothing to do with each other.

I think if people were more concerned about their own individual performance and less about what corps X was doing, everyone would be better off (and would stop embarrassing themselves and their organizations).

[KAW]

I don't think it is politically incorrect to talk of burying the competition. I think it is terribly short sighted. I think winning a competition for many fans seems to excuse the important issue at hand: being a perfect performer.

Like I brought up earlier, 2001 Cavaliers had quite a poor hornline, IMO. Does the fact that they win mean they had a good hornline? No. The two have nothing to do with each other.

I think if people were more concerned about their own individual performance and less about what corps X was doing, everyone would be better off (and would stop embarrassing themselves and their organizations).

I don't disagree with you. Just one thought though...if you just concern yourself with your own performance and don't worry about what corps X does then you likely risk losing perspective. We compete by a combination of observing how others get better and coming up with different ways ourselves. If we practice 2 hours per day and observe that our competition, who is beating us, is practicing 6 hours per day then we might reconsider. If corps A has differentiated itself in a certain way, we might try and doing something slightly different to further differentiate ourselves. Both these are examples if not being concerned about what corps "X" is doing. By its very nature, competition learns from each other and to do so you have to oberve the competition. It's called keeping up with the Jones (Oh wait, that's an SCV comment as well).