GUARDLING Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 I recently saw a picture from 1934 ( or around that) of the cadets...the sign in the pic said.....Holy Name Cadets Fife and Bugle corps...lmao...maybe woodwinds are in our past.....lol....there's a can of worms for ya!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) Trucks and motorcycles are mobile and self-propelled. Are they "automobiles"? Context: 1) the parts of a discourse that surrounds a word to give it meaning; 2) the interrelationship of aspects in which something exists or occurs. Your use of motorcycles does not work because (auto) means mecahnical power and (mobile) means to move about. Nice try, though. What you are attempting to do is to create an analogy which falls into the categories of both Equivocation and Fallacy. For example all Corvettes are automobiles (Corvettes certainly fit into the context which describes an automobile) however not all automobiles are Corvettes. The same holds true for Drum Corps within proper context: all Drum Corps are by contextual definition Marching Bands, but not all Marching Bands are Drum Corps. Those of us in America are democratic. Are we "Democrats"? Ummm.... we actually live in a Republic which has Democratic elements (a combination of best aspects of ancient Rome and ancient Greece); check your history. Since you are looking up words in the dictionary, go look at one more word...."semantics". Semantics: 1) the study and classification in the meanings of words within context; 2) the use of language to convey meaning to an audience. Since all Drum Corps fall contextually into both the meaning of Marching (uniform movement within rhythmic structure) and the meaning of Band (a collection of musicians) this supports definition #1 of Semantics. Since the term Marching Band is widely known and understood by the lay people who know nothing about the DCI activity, and the use of term Marching Band conveyed a generic meaning to the audience which was technically accurate without having to spend many paragraphs describing the minutia which separates Marching Bands (with woodwinds) and Marching Bands (without woodwinds). this supports definition #2 of Semantics. Would you like to try another route to support your position? Or just conceed that Drum Corps always have been and always will be a technical form of Marching Band. Edited September 27, 2011 by Stu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 Trucks and motorcycles are mobile and self-propelled. Are they "automobiles"? Those of us in America are democratic. Are we "Democrats"? Since you are looking up words in the dictionary, go look at one more word...."semantics". Actually, the answer to the first question is yes. The orginal term automobile came from a separation from horse driven to engine driven. Motorcycles and trucks are engine driven and not horse driven. 2. We would be called "correctly" a democratic republic. A collection of independent states, republics and commonwealths, is actually a more apt description. For a long while, we were called a Union and not a nation. Just some interesting facts from a great book, Jay Winik's April 1865. 3. This has little to do with semantics. Drum corps is a subset of a larger sphere called marching bands. We would not exist had there not been the need for other bands like drum corps. For instance, fife and drum corps, bagpipers, British brass bands, etc. The biggest separation in all of the marching band sphere is whether the specific activity is scholastic, military, or "other" based outside those two major subdivisions. Drum corps used to be very closely tied to the military side of the sphere...now, clearly in the other category. The subset of this sphere which has maintained the longest sustained history at this point appears to be scholastic. While there are certainly still military bands, etc., they have not maintained their growth from 100 years ago. And neither has the "other" of which drum corps is probably the sole exception. Want to check the other...there used to be accordian and banjo bands in almost every parade in the 1920s - early 1950s. These were propogated by local "music schools." They are long since gone the way, except those wonderful Philidelphians and their unique style of mummers parades. I'm sure there are others. I am not painstakingly checking through all of this...it's history off the top of my head this morning. But, enjoy your day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Other Mike Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 I can't believe there is a 5 page argument about this. Can we please get over it? It is not that critical. People categorize things incorrectly all the time. How many people think of Kenny G as jazz? Among the problems of the world, this is inconsequential. Pick your battles folks. Oh come on. This is the most fun we've had in at least 2 weeks. It's not "monkeys on a cupcake fun" but you take what you can get in the off season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) I don't know why, but reading posts I sometimes confuse Stu and Tom Brace... their thoughts are eerily similar! Edited September 27, 2011 by charlie1223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 Well, there's more than one battle here. When people start throwing the DC=MB statement around, the context expands beyond simple mischaracterization. There are a few who really want to change drum corps into marching band by eliminating whatever distinctions remain between the two activities. And there are some who think that would be the end of drum corps....and not just in semantic terms. Personally, I don't think the DCI touring model would be sustainable if they morphed into marching band right now, because marching band just doesn't have the same drawing power as drum corps. As ubiquitous as marching band is, competitive drum corps has always outdrawn competitive marching band. Let me take this on. I've lived through the era of high school marching band directors despising drum corps. I watched as two kids in my band...one trumpet player and one drummer get kicked out of marching band for going to march drum corps. They had to file music in the band library because they missed our one week marching camp. But, the rules were the rules right? They were still in band class but not allowed to march. I don't think that would happen today. Drum corps is vastly more supported by the scholastic community. I think the differences in these two marching units have morphed more because of inevitibility than any other single factor. Where did/do marching members come from? Has this changed much over the years? I would argue yes, somewhat. Rote music learning is gone now. You audition to get in now (in most places). Nobody has this secret agenda to change drum corps into marching band. It's just acceptance of a fact. DCI...what some would call Junior drum corps survival depends on a tighter alignment with the scholastic marching band programs. The semantics are as follows...scholastic/not scholastic and allows woodwinds and bell front brass/does not allow those. That's it. Here's the rub. To make this last, we need to have two major components. 1. We need marching members (until Asimo becomes cheaper and can learn to move an play). 2. We need fans...paying fans. So, by having this traditional, we are not marching band, there's an evil plot to change drum corps...I mean who...as a new potential fan is going to be excited by that...is going to want to buy a ticket for that. Tapping into the scholstic band market was a smart idea. It has sustained a declining activity. And yes, we are declining. We are going to lose at least one more corps this year in DCI, maybe as many as three. But there's always the savior right? DCA? Yes? Now that's pure drum corps, right? Has DCA announced the paid attendance at finals yet? It's been 3 weeks. DCI has. DCI is up this year. Probably mostly due to more fans from the east anticipating that a certain corps was going to win and it wasn't a California corps. Anyway. I also take exception to the note about some people "fanning the flames." That is condescending at best and could be interpreted as name calling and disrespetful of someone who has an opinion different than yours. My past interactions with you have indicated you are better than this and I assume it was just a slip up on your part. But, I am adamant about a continued survival plan for "junior drum corps" aligning more with the scholastic marching band arena as it supplies more and more of the fuel for drum corps...namely, marching members. And without that...there are no fans. Good day, sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Brace Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 I don't know why, but reading posts I sometimes confuse Stu and Tom Brace... their thoughts are eerily similar! Is there something here you want to say? I have only one account and have always used my real name when posting. FACT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 ... "I understand there are distinctions between drum corps and marching band that make all the difference in the world to many of us insiders....but I also understand that the two activities are so similar that it is easiest to describe drum corps to outsiders by referring to marching band, which is more familiar to the general public."... From the Movie Breakfast Club: (applicable here concerning both context and semantics) Andrew (Emilio Estevez): You don't have any goals. Bender (Judd Nelson): Oh, but I do. Andrew: Yeah? Bender: I wanna be just like you. I figure all I need, is a lobotomy and some tights (in reference to the wrestling uniform). Brian (Anthony Michael Hall): You wear tights? Andrew: No I don't wear tights. I wear the required uniform. Brian: Tights! Andrew: Shut up!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) Is there something here you want to say? I have only one account and have always used my real name when posting. FACT. I meant it light-hearted! It was just the way you and Stu responded to audiob's post. Great minds think alike, right!? Edited September 27, 2011 by charlie1223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) ... It was just the way you and Stu responded to audiob's post. Great minds think alike, right!? Ok there is a first; I have never been accused of having a great mind before here on DCP Thanks for the ego boost!!! Edited September 27, 2011 by Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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