As to the President's Remarks - The Cadets are a Marching Band

[perc2100]

and those clear distictions amount to

2. Drum corps does not have woodwinds or bell front brass.

3. Work ethic is different.

There are marching bands that fit this description, or at least arguably come VERY close to these characteristics - again, 'blurring the lines' so to speak).

I really don't get the animosity people have when others correlate drum corps with marching bands: drum corps = genre of 'marching band.'

[audiodb]

Let me take this on. I've lived through the era of high school marching band directors despising drum corps. I watched as two kids in my band...one trumpet player and one drummer get kicked out of marching band for going to march drum corps. They had to file music in the band library because they missed our one week marching camp. But, the rules were the rules right? They were still in band class but not allowed to march.

I don't think that would happen today. Drum corps is vastly more supported by the scholastic community. I think the differences in these two marching units have morphed more because of inevitibility than any other single factor. Where did/do marching members come from? Has this changed much over the years? I would argue yes, somewhat. Rote music learning is gone now. You audition to get in now (in most places).

Agreed. What kind of "inevitability", though, is an open question. For instance, drum corps could have continued to get members from traditional sources....but competition drove top corps to hire credentialed musicians as staff, and they drove recruitment of trained band kids. And as those corps won, other corps followed suit.

What was more inevitable, in my view, was that the scholastic outlet, with it's nine-figure annual subsidy from our tax dollars, would provide a much more fertile ground for growing a marching music activity than the world of independent summer marching groups. So our corps people went where the money was....and now we have thousands of competitive marching bands, a number dwarfing even the historical peak population of field-competitive corps.

Nobody has this secret agenda to change drum corps into marching band. It's just acceptance of a fact. DCI...what some would call Junior drum corps survival depends on a tighter alignment with the scholastic marching band programs. The semantics are as follows...scholastic/not scholastic and allows woodwinds and bell front brass/does not allow those. That's it.

Here's the rub. To make this last, we need to have two major components. 1. We need marching members (until Asimo becomes cheaper and can learn to move an play). 2. We need fans...paying fans.

OK, great. Bear in mind, though, that while aligning with band may help with members, it seems to have the opposite effect on fans.

So, by having this traditional, we are not marching band, there's an evil plot to change drum corps...I mean who...as a new potential fan is going to be excited by that...is going to want to buy a ticket for that.

Ticket sales were doing just fine when drum corps was more traditional. But as we've morphed toward band, we've alienated a vocal portion of our fan base, and ticket sales have declined.

Tapping into the scholstic band market was a smart idea.

Agreed....from a recruiting standpoint.

I also take exception to the note about some people "fanning the flames." That is condescending at best and could be interpreted as name calling and disrespetful of someone who has an opinion different than yours. My past interactions with you have indicated you are better than this and I assume it was just a slip up on your part.

Actually, Tom, that comment was directed toward the drive-by DC=MB posters. Your posts in this thread have a constructive purpose, and thus do not fall in that category. Unfortunately, it might not be possible to have this discussion without the noise of "DC=MB" vs. "drum corps died in 1929" drowning it out....but maybe if we hurry....

But, I am adamant about a continued survival plan for "junior drum corps" aligning more with the scholastic marching band arena as it supplies more and more of the fuel for drum corps...namely, marching members. And without that...there are no fans.

I have no problem with that. I might suggest some care be taken in how it's implemented, though.

[GUARDLING]

There are marching bands that fit this description, or at least arguably come VERY close to these characteristics - again, 'blurring the lines' so to speak).

I really don't get the animosity people have when others correlate drum corps with marching bands: drum corps = genre of 'marching band.'

its the OLDDDDDDDD stero type of HS geeks..that's the bottom line.even look at Glee the TV show..as great as those singers are its really about how they are tormented even by staff......if HS bands were in big leagues years ago some people would be screaming to be a part of it.....look how when a HS band get some big recognition..then people are quick to find the connections to drum corps..either by staff or show design.....typical human behavior..lol

Edited September 27, 2011 by GUARDLING

[audiodb]

I really don't get the animosity people have when others correlate drum corps with marching bands: drum corps = genre of 'marching band.'

Maybe I'm forgetting (and page refreshes are too slow for me to look back right now)....but I don't recall "animosity" toward marching band on this thread. Past threads, probably.

[Stu]

... Drum corps was born in the military family, and thus originally defined by the use of military signaling devices. On the other hand, scholastic marching band came about from a desire to have halftime entertainment on the football field....and they already had bands....so they just had to get them marching. I think we'd still have scholastic marching band even without the other historical precedents....but it wouldn't have evolved into a "corps-style" competitive activity.

You do realize that your reasoning here actually supports the notion that drum corps began to morph into the realm of high school marching bands the moment corps left the military field as signaling devices and began to "entertain" audiences with shows on HS/College/Pro football fields.

[Tom Brace]

I guess there is the purist...who would define golf as solely a Scottish links course.

But, purity leads to exclusivity and exclusivity leads to mortality.

Even WGN radio had to change to a "young hip" 40 year old morning host. I don't think it's working in drawing a young, hip audience, because people under 40 don't listen to a lot of AM radio.

So, that might be a good argument for staying pure. G horns, traditional grip, marching pits, posting an honor guard...how far do we want to go back in our definition of purity? Do we want timing pistols back? Tick system....oops. I said it.

I guess mortality and entropy are also factors to consider. With every iteration, more of the purity of what drum corps is/was is lost to entropy. I would argue each and every existing circuit out there, DCA, DCE, DCI suffer from this. Everytime a corps' staff "stretches the envelope" with something new and win over some new fans, older purists are lost in the process.

And we also suffer from mortality. Drum corps fans die each year. We struggle to replace...not only their persons, but the knowledge, passion and drive for drum corps.

Someone recently posted a once familiar phase..."drum AND bugle corps." To me, I have seldom used that more correct term. To me, it's drum corps. Something lost, something gained.

[GUARDLING]

I guess there is the purist...who would define golf as solely a Scottish links course.

But, purity leads to exclusivity and exclusivity leads to mortality.

Even WGN radio had to change to a "young hip" 40 year old morning host. I don't think it's working in drawing a young, hip audience, because people under 40 don't listen to a lot of AM radio.

So, that might be a good argument for staying pure. G horns, traditional grip, marching pits, posting an honor guard...how far do we want to go back in our definition of purity? Do we want timing pistols back? Tick system....oops. I said it.

I guess mortality and entropy are also factors to consider. With every iteration, more of the purity of what drum corps is/was is lost to entropy. I would argue each and every existing circuit out there, DCA, DCE, DCI suffer from this. Everytime a corps' staff "stretches the envelope" with something new and win over some new fans, older purists are lost in the process.

And we also suffer from mortality. Drum corps fans die each year. We struggle to replace...not only their persons, but the knowledge, passion and drive for drum corps.

Someone recently posted a once familiar phase..."drum AND bugle corps." To me, I have seldom used that more correct term. To me, it's drum corps. Something lost, something gained.

you make a very good point..I recently spoke to some friends in alumni corps and we talked about how some members want more music from the late 80s and 90s and not just from the 50s and 60s....well some said well thats not alumni corps..well my question to them was ok who deems whats the tradition...who decides which decade is the " RIGHT DECADE"..as I said before territorial and human nature.

Edited September 27, 2011 by GUARDLING

[JimF-LowBari]

you make a very good point..I recently spoke to some friends in alumni corps and we talked about how some members want more music from the late 80s and 90s and not just from the 50s and 60s....well some said well thats not alumni corps..well my question to them was ok who deems whats the tradition...who decides which decade is the " RIGHT DECADE"..as I said before territorial and human nature.

LOL, guess you've been following that thread too....

IMO the answer is what ever helps the corps (be they DCI/DCA/Alumni-type/whatever) SURVIVE into the next x number of years. Granted I'm not a fan of some of the things going on today but if it helps the activity survive I'll wish it God speed and good luck as I send audiodb and the DCW gang more money for old show CDs. I may not be in the stadium but at least other (and younger) people will be there to support the current version.

With the #### I've followed over the past 3 1/2 decades I'm just #### glad and surprised ANY of the activity still exists.

Edited September 27, 2011 by JimF-LowBari

[Jeff Ream]

It isn't about politics. What I'm saying is that one man isn't the decider.

Boogers and wasabi look the same, sometimes they have the same texture, they can both be added to food. Hell, on the most basic level, they are a lot of the same things.

Boogers and wasabi are two different things. Period.

If I saw a video I might not be able to tell the difference between boogers and wasabi. But they are different.

well, i guess i wont be having wasabi anytime soon

and who cares what Obama called them. he gave them some love and some spotlight for a drum corps

[TRacer]

I don't understand what all the hubbub's about-- when SCV marched the Rose Parade in '04, long-time KTLA/Channel 5 Tournament of Roses announcer Stephanie ("Shop at Vons Supermarket!") Edwards deviated from the script and said we were "...the band associated with Santa Clara University..." (Bob Eubanks: "Errr...") At least in our case she was wrong on two counts, as over half the instrumentation were G bugles being played by the alums.