chaddyt Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Since DCI IS the corps, I don't think that's too far out there. Also, it would be more DCI deciding to ensure that their corps 1) don't violate copyright law (which they've been doing) AND 2) have complete shows on the DVD's (which DCI has not been doing so well the last five or so years). Instead of "DCI deciding how a corps programs its own shows" it would be more akin to "DCI deciding that its member corps are not permitted to perform pieces they can obtain all necessary copyright clearances for." That's obviously easier said than done, and to be fair the majority of corps do a good job of complying (in 2011 we had three quarters of the Finalist shows that were cleared), but this problem is seemingly growing and I don't think it would be bad for DCI to be more proactive. That might be true to an extent, but DCI's largest merchandising comes from end-of-the-year DVD/Blu-ray sales as well as their Fan Network subscriptions. If more fans become irate over consecutive years of fan-favorite shows being censored/incomplete, DCI will lose money. I get what you're saying. Not trying to minimize the financial impact of the Blurays and FN and such. And if this trend continues, I do see DCI starting to lay the smack down (so to speak) in terms of setting up a process that all corps follow to make sure they can produce a complete product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Doherty Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 If I'm not mistaken. live performances are not exempt from the licensing requirements, so every performance by every Corp can be subject to licensing fees unless there is an exemption for non profits. ( I don't think there is an exemption because DCI is nonprofit, too and there wouldn't be an issue if they were exempt).. So why aren't ASCAP and BMI chasing the Corps down? Because it's much easier to make regular collections from Record Companies, CD juke boxes, Radio Stations, and Symphony Orchestras than to chase musicians down who work at night and and you never know where they are from day to day. In other words they choose to ignore the musicians and go for the easy money. What I haven't seen addressed is whether the composers can waive their collection rights. For example a Holsinger or a Corp staff member composer has a licensed composition, but wants a Corps to play their music, but maintain the right to have ASCAP and BMI collect from College Bands. I guess we don't have a licensing attorney in our group who could provide confirmation or correction to what I remember from 40 years ago. Oh well. Kevin Doherty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook'emCavies Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I agree actually with both sides of the argument. I don't think it should be 100 bucks, but also I think the corps should have gotten the rights first. Cavies and Scouts had great shows no doubt, but they should have gotten things taken care of. At least The Cavaliers show wasn't completely blacked out like the Madison Scouts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 How can DCI sell a product that's been butchered like the 2011 DCI Championships DVD has been? At $100.00 a pop and to have parts of the shows blacked out? What's the alternative? Don't produce a championship DVD because Madison played Empire State of Mind and couldn't secure full licensing rights? I don't think that's a viable alternative. I get it that fans are rightly disappointed by this. What's DCI supposed to do now? Calculate the value of each song and price the DVD accordingly? There were 12 corps playing four or more songs each. So we have 50 or more songs. That's $2 each on a $100 DVD. Would you be less outraged at $95, which is double the single song discount value? I doubt it. And that discount doesn't even take into account that you still get the audio. Want to argue that ESOM represents 10% of the DVD value (a dubious proposition for sure, if you ask me)? Less outrage at $89? I doubt it. I wouldn't suggest not buying the DVD as a good alternative. The value you would lose then would be in the rest of the outstanding programs and performances that were 2011. We are the 99%! Buy it. HH 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Since DCI IS the corps... I think it's the other way around: The corps are DCI. The distinction in this case is DCI provides a service (the DVD) for the corps. That service and others like it result in revenues for DCI and the corps. DCI doesn't tell the corps how to manage their ordinary operations, including program selections. HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingwalker27 Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) If it's Madison's closer you are referring to, I would much rather they black out the visual and keep the audio than mute the audio and keep the video. With that closer, it was all about the music anyway and very little about the visual. I have no complaints. I'm very happy with my DVDs. By the way, the sound quality seems much better this year than previous years. Not that I haven't liked the audio in the past, but something about this year's just sounds better to my ears, On the DVD I bought the audio and visual for Madison's closer are both blocked. Edited January 18, 2012 by wingwalker27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedb1975 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Mods, does this thread really need to exist? There are already like 50 threads with over 7 million posts regarding this same tired subject. Look, the DVDs are what they are because corps made the decisions they had to make to create the best possible show for us to watch LIVE! The corps knew ahead of time what would have to be done. DCI knew ahead of time what would have to be done. And WEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL KNEW what was going to be on (or not on) the DVDs before we PURCHASED them and if you didn't like it, you whould not have purchased a copy. So really, it's not the corps fault. It's not DCI's fault. It's YOUR FAULT for buying a DVD that you KNEW would have things edited out BEFORE the product even hit the shelf. So quit complaining!!! In before the close................PLEASE! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) Mods, does this thread really need to exist? There are already like 50 threads with over 7 million posts regarding this same tired subject. Look, the DVDs are what they are because corps made the decisions they had to make to create the best possible show for us to watch LIVE! The corps knew ahead of time what would have to be done. DCI knew ahead of time what would have to be done. And WEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL KNEW what was going to be on (or not on) the DVDs before we PURCHASED them and if you didn't like it, you whould not have purchased a copy. So really, it's not the corps fault. It's not DCI's fault. It's YOUR FAULT for buying a DVD that you KNEW would have things edited out BEFORE the product even hit the shelf. So quit complaining!!! In before the close................PLEASE! where ya been ..most threads are tired and old.......lol but youre right..not like it was a secret Edited January 19, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 i'm not upset by the butchering because i'll probably never watch the shows that were effected. but i can see why others are. dci/corps need to address this. they can get away with not addressing it, of course, because people will still buy the blurays/dvds, but it's more than a little slimy if they don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leed17 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Mods, does this thread really need to exist? There are already like 50 threads with over 7 million posts regarding this same tired subject. Look, the DVDs are what they are because corps made the decisions they had to make to create the best possible show for us to watch LIVE! The corps knew ahead of time what would have to be done. DCI knew ahead of time what would have to be done. And WEEEEEEEEEEEEEE ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL KNEW what was going to be on (or not on) the DVDs before we PURCHASED them and if you didn't like it, you whould not have purchased a copy. So really, it's not the corps fault. It's not DCI's fault. It's YOUR FAULT for buying a DVD that you KNEW would have things edited out BEFORE the product even hit the shelf. So quit complaining!!! In before the close................PLEASE! Not entirely true - fans were informed about the Madison cut pretty early, but they were NOT informed about the cut to Crown or Cavies show until the DVD's actually began to be shipped. For those who preordered back in August, they did NOT know about any cuts. Let it be stated I for one love the DVD's and Blu-rays, and would never NOT buy them. But, I have to admit, it is pretty lousy to say to family members - "wow, watch this show" - "oh wait, we can't see that part" - "oh sorry, that part's cut out, but it was really cool live" - Its just sad, and honestly, I don't think there is anything that can be done to make it change. Its (copyright and licensing, etc) only going to get worse I'm afraid. leed17 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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