bill Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 The snare drumer next to me was once hit square in the head with a megaphone by the director. We didn't think of that as hazing - he was just trying to get his attention. Was the megaphone okay; those things can be pricey!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Nothing about snuggies was professional (professional players wouldn't do such a thing and a professional org wouldn't tolerate such a juvenile thing), which is why they were stopped. As mentioned already in this thread, there was a good reason why Dave stopped these... simply the kids were above that sort of thing, just no one had really made them understand it yet. Dave had a clear vision for taking the organization to another level in terms of professionalism and overall respect (and the bar was already pretty high). The transitional years were a bit tough, a lot of distractions with people getting emotionally invested into silly traditions that didn't really matter (I remember one hugely emotional breakdown with soloists not being able to take off their shako's). Uniform changes in 94 were sort of a symbolic representation that this philosophical shift (91-93) was complete. Sorry I didn't respond sooner...I was working a tournament all day. The professional comment was aimed at the staff, not the members....I was never chased down for a snuggie by Jack or Wayne (aaannnddddd, cue the commentary on THAT one) Let's define TRUELY harmful hazing here...a paddling that does physical damage or some other crap that puts you in the hospital as a condition of group belonging is bad bad bad. What happened at FAMU is criminal (and not just this most recent incident, from what we're reading) Having the underwear ripped from your body as a result of inturrupting the director during a post-show talk/being a disruptive idiot/your birthday I do not define as hazing (ok...I might give the birthday one). Those were my three, and I do not lump them with the FAMU ones....not remotely close. As for snuggies administered for blowing a drill set....nope. The vets made it clear to the rooks what was expected of them if they did that...after the set dress and relax, you dropped and did some pushups. They did it, too.....that's not hazing by any stretch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralTsoChicken Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Sorry I didn't respond sooner...I was working a tournament all day. The professional comment was aimed at the staff, not the members....I was never chased down for a snuggie by Jack or Wayne (aaannnddddd, cue the commentary on THAT one) Let's define TRUELY harmful hazing here...a paddling that does physical damage or some other crap that puts you in the hospital as a condition of group belonging is bad bad bad. What happened at FAMU is criminal (and not just this most recent incident, from what we're reading) Having the underwear ripped from your body as a result of inturrupting the director during a post-show talk/being a disruptive idiot/your birthday I do not define as hazing (ok...I might give the birthday one). Those were my three, and I do not lump them with the FAMU ones....not remotely close. As for snuggies administered for blowing a drill set....nope. The vets made it clear to the rooks what was expected of them if they did that...after the set dress and relax, you dropped and did some pushups. They did it, too.....that's not hazing by any stretch. I, personally, chalk this up to a change in era. They are very different in your mind, but on a college campus and marching field (in 2012) they are considered the same thing, and 9/10 are punished as such. What you describe and what some of the other BD vets have described (it happened at most corps, not just BD), if happened today---would without a doubt end in legal litigation and/or firing of staff members who saw it. These times, they be a changin'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esch Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 The closest we had in Santa Clara (at least in the early '70's) was in Half Moon Bay when we'd go to the beach after the Holy Ghost parade and over a two-hour period each rookie would in turn get thrown into the ocean..... I remember thinking we'd be safe if we hung out on the jetty..... got to admit, it felt good when it happened. There's a BIG difference between an initiation rite and hazing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Doherty Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 His name is East? His name is Nutley. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadets98 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 We enjoyed our "rituals" back in the day. Is there something wrong with a rookie talent show? How about our "rookie swim"? Once a year after a good rain, we would make the rookies lay down and splash in puddles while singing the corps song. Is that "hazing"? Where do you draw the line? Rookie talent crossed the line at one time where I marched. It was killed by the director the next year. The drum bus had no free days in 95 because they kept on trying to have rookie talent. I will not give specifics but it was hazing and was inappropriate. We had John Madden, director of bands at Michigan State who had dealt with hazing, come down the next year and talk to us. It was a problem and was squelched. 94 was the last year for rookie talent in my drum corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadets98 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 (edited) Hazing in general these days is pretty rare unless your in militaristic fraternities (cough, cough) but i remember going through hazing as a 1st year in HS marching band years and years ago. I thought it sucked at the time, but looking back at it, it brought us much more together and were a good hs unit. What happened with FAMU i consider more to be criminal assault rather than hazing. By calling what happened at FAMU "not hazing," you seem to be justifying hazing as long as it does not result in real physical damage or death. The problem with this argument is no one while hazing ever considers the real consequences. I'm sure no one wanted to kill that young man. That's the problem with hazing. It is ritualized. Ritual often takes people to an alternate reality where the rules do not apply. This is why what happened at FAMU was indeed hazing--hazing that resulted in an unintended consequence for sure but hazing nonetheless. That's why its so dangerous. Hazing often has unintended consequences. I strongly disagree with your argument. It says that hazing is ok as long as the results are controlled. Well, hazing has gotten out of control many times over history. The problem is not those specific incidences. The problem is hazing in general. Oh, and hazing is not rare at all at many traditionally black college marching bands. I heard some hellacious stories from a co-worker that played trumpet for Southern University in Baton Rouge. I know it can and does exist in other places, but it is exceptionally strong in the show bands. Edited May 6, 2012 by Cadets98 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCIfan90 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 I love me a good sock party. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laundryday Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 When doesn't hazing happen in drum corps? Luckily the experiences I had while in corps, there was a rookie talent night (with some pretty graphic "talents")...but all those who participated chose to, and those who didn't want to simply didn't, there was no forcing them too so it wasn't technically hazing. From the rumors I've heard, things have calmed down some...well let me rephrase that, it's still pretty wild but as far as "hazing" or forcing somebody to participate it something has gone down. In recent years I have still heard of different hazing rituals, but not sure if they're still carried out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valvedtpt Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) I heard of a corps that swore off wedgies when a member who had received one had been hoisted up so high that their head hit the top of the bus. I forget if it knocked the person out (or not) for a period of time. Of course, I don't think the people that initiated the wedgie wanted to do harm to the individual. That being said, I have a question: Is putting the slower/slowest runners at the front of the breathing block considered hazing? Edited May 7, 2012 by valvedtpt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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