laundryday Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 That being said, I have a question: Is putting the slower/slowest runners at the front of the breathing block considered hazing? It depends on the attitude taken by the staff and other members. If it is one of generally encouragement then not at all. Even if it is a slight harsh attitude, tough love, attitude (if the slow runner doesn't want because they don't want to try) then it's acceptable. The only time I see it unacceptable is when the staff and members put down the said member and make them feel worthless., or make them do something that they're clearly physically unable to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellodramatic Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 It really depends on what you call hazing. If it endangers someone physically or emotionally, then of course it's wrong. But corps have their traditions and usually rookies just have to deal with certain parts of being rookies. It's nothing personal against the ones being "initiated" (better word than hazed?) and nobody is ever forced to do something. It's just a lot of peer pressure. I'd say that a huge majority of the time these little rookie "hazing" acts in drum corps are just harmless stupid things done for laughs and tradition within a certain bus/section of the corps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 By calling what happened at FAMU "not hazing," you seem to be justifying hazing as long as it does not result in real physical damage or death. The problem with this argument is no one while hazing ever considers the real consequences. I'm sure no one wanted to kill that young man. That's the problem with hazing. It is ritualized. Ritual often takes people to an alternate reality where the rules do not apply. This is why what happened at FAMU was indeed hazing--hazing that resulted in an unintended consequence for sure but hazing nonetheless. That's why its so dangerous. Hazing often has unintended consequences... This hits the nail square on the head. Hazing is fun right up to the moment it's not fun. And those in control are not in a position to evaluate adequately where that line is - so they sometimes cross it. One of the reasons is the "ritualized" behavior/attitude described by Cadets98. Another is these rituals seek ever-greater effect or significance which carries them closer to the line all the time. HH 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildabeast Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Just to slip a quick note on the FAMU situation, the director just opted to retire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Ha, does said name combine the cities St. Louis and Los Angeles in their english versions? only if caught oncamera flipping the bird at retreat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottgordon Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Looking back on high school band, we had something that happened every year that I now wonder whether or not it was hazing. I don't think so, but in hindsight, I can see how hazing can grow out of something small and develop in an insidious way. Here's the story... Every year the jazz band went to the Reno Jazz Festival. Rather than stay in a hotel, we stayed in someone's home. That's right, the whole band - slept on floors throughout the house. Five of us were assigned to sleep outside in a trailer the homeowner had. One of the guys had to go to the bathroom, so he left the trailer and went in the house. The rest of us, in the meantime, found these foam rubber baseball bats in a closet in the trailer, and hid them under our sheets. When he returned and had stripped to his underwear, we (pretending to be asleep), jumped out of our sleeping bags and "attacked" him with the foam bats. We had no intention of hurting him, just surprising him. Quite to OUR surprise, he ran outside of the trailer, at which point, we promptly locked the door. Through the window, we said we would let him back in if he ran once around the block. Again, we had no intention of holding him to this (Reno in March still has snow on the ground). But to our surprise, he immediately took off around the block. When he returned, we felt so bad for him, that we each took turns running around the block in our underwear too. Needless to say, the next day the whole band learned of what we did. The next year, everyone wanted to be assigned the trailer... and the proviso was that anyone assigned to the trailer would have to make the trip around the block. What makes it "not-hazing" - I think - yet - is that so many people wanted to be in the trailer specifically so they could be one of the ones to go through the famous run around the block. Of course, anyone assigned to the trailer that had already done the run, didn't have to do it again. This to me was all great fun, and a great bonding memory. But I could see how such innocent fun could grow little-by-little if not kept in control, and eventually become hazing. I wonder if a some hazing rituals start this way. The other, even more memorable story of those trips, was that a neighbor of that house had a full-size lion as a pet, which owner took for walks around the neighborhood every morning. I mean full-out huge lion - big mane and tail, the works. It was very old and docile. This was a normal residential neighborhood! The kids noticed the lion and immediately went to see it - the owner allowing the kids to pet it. The band director nearly had a heart attack when she looked out the window and saw the band kids petting a lion... I learned that years later - she said the first thing that went through her mind was: "my career is over". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) This is almost entirely a "leadership issue". The band director (who may have been a legend and mentor to many thousands of young people), failed his organization here. This happens so often when a leader remains in charge beyond his/her ability to stay in touch with their organization. Simply stated (if that's possible)...a leader who is clear about the organization's policy and constantly reinforces it through his chain of command...leaves no room for such blatant disregard. IMO, this never would have happened had there not been "wiggle room" and cadre (at many levels) turning a blind eye. "Hey, we had to go through it...so should they!" Years ago, I trained Army Rangers and (although I'm not trying to compare the two) it was always a challenge to set strict guidelines between dangerous training and out right stupidity/cruelty. In short, the leader sets the tone with the junior leaders and members, keeps a watchful eye, stays in touch, and knows what the hell is going on with his/her unit. IMO, the director was clueless and his disregard caused this to happen. Now, made worse by never taking responsibility, but seemingly pointing at others....no surprise here. It's leadership...period. Oh, and he never should have been allowed to retire...but canned! Edited May 14, 2012 by Plan9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedb1975 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Here's the link about the incident at FAMU and today's convictions. Share some story about this unfortunate tradition that happens in the marching band world. Has this every haooen in drumcorps? http://www.ajc.com/n...mu-1429796.html "Hazing" is squirting ketchup and mustard on someone while they are asleep, while another squirts whipped cream in their shoes. Completely harmless and all in good fun. The crap in this above article does not even qualify to be called "hazing". I'd call it GANG ACTIVITY! I mean.......look at it....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevedb1975 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) The snare drumer next to me was once hit square in the head with a megaphone by the director. We didn't think of that as hazing - he was just trying to get his attention. That's a nice way to go to prison. If a director did that to my kid, I'd probably JOIN him in prison, if you know what I mean. No seriously, how can such stupidity be considered acceptable? Even more, how can you give such stupidity a thumbs up. There's nothing funny about that. Whoever that director is deserves to lose his job and have a criminal record. Nothing personal man (I usually enjoy your posts) but I don't see how you can make light of a director hitting a kid in the head with something that can cause serious damage. There's nothing funny about it. Edited May 14, 2012 by stevedb1975 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrillmanSop06 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 "Hazing" is squirting ketchup and mustard on someone while they are asleep, while another squirts whipped cream in their shoes. Completely harmless and all in good fun. The crap in this above article does not even qualify to be called "hazing". I'd call it GANG ACTIVITY! I mean.......look at it....... Oh, do tell us! Which gangs were involved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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