Professional Drum and Bugle Corps league/organization

[cdm]

Heck, we can't get a sustainable Professional Women's Soccer league in the US and the WNBA is questionable. The only reason the WNBA exists is because of NVA backing. I have to wonder if any of those teams are profitable.

This would be a for profit business. That changes the rules of the game innately.

The closest thing we had to this was BLAST! and it had some success, but it ran its course.

This kind of connects to the whole Edge thread. You'd need a huge fan base willing to turn out and spend serious cash on tickets and have enough top end venues and compatitions to make this worthwhile and remotely profitable. There's not enough mainstream interest, and I would say there will never be. The Mainstream barely understood BLAST! and supported it....

I don't think it has to have mainstream interest in the beginning. I think such a league could build from the existing fan base, and with determination and a long term plan for existence, (a 25 year plan at startup?!!!!) it could slowly build itself into a viable league.

People said the Jamaicans were idiots to start a bobsled team.

Edited May 24, 2012 by cdm

[GUARDLING]

Well, I am not surprised there are a lot of naysayers coming out of the woodwork. That is the nature of humanity. However, if the people who can do, and have done, amazing things in the past had listened to the naysayers, we would still be reading by candlelight, and listening to a oracle recite the events of the past around a bonfire.

Naysayers said that same things about::

1.The Wright Brothers. ("man was never meant to fly, and if mans was meant to fly, god would have gave him wings.")

2.Nascar, as one poster has stated as a example. If the ignorant hillbillys(and that is not far from the truth, because I know some, and they are truly ignorant) that were driving modified stock cars up and down dangerous dirt mountain roads had listened to every cop that was successful in stopping them, and putting them in jail, Nascar would not exist.

3.Major League Baseball, which started with one professional team, the Cincinnati Reds. Many people felt baseball was a kids game to played on empty lots.

4.The US Patent office. In 1899 the head of the U.S. Patent Office sent his resignation to President McKinley urging the closing of the office because "everything that could be invented has been invented."

5.Email: the inventor of email was told that is was useless, and no one would want to use it.

6.a various and sundry other inventions, ideas, and concepts that have gone one to become major products, or parts of society.

As for where the money would come from, maybe a Professional Drum corps League could start by following the example of Major League Baseball. Many original pro baseball teams were sponsored by companies, and the players were paid only during the season.

My business model (yes I have thought about this for a while.) would be to start a new music instrument company/music store, and try to hire up to 25-30 people to make instruments for the general market, with part of their job description being that they have to march in the drum corps on weekends during the summer season. That way, they would generate revenue to pay for the expenses of the summer weekend shows, and would get income from their jobs. This may work for one, maybe two, of the corps. (I don't think there is enough market for 25-30 new music instrument companies, but I may be wrong.) A corps of 25-30 people could compete professionally to start with, and management could be disciplined, and grow the corps as economics dictated.(just like some corps do now.) There could be other ways/business models to fund a new professional drum and bugle corps. (ie,: a event/entertainment company that would have as part of it's job descriptions that the employees have to march, and compete in professional drum corps, something like a touring version of Blast, where during the summer, the members compete in a professional Drum Corps League, and perform a theater show the rest of the year.)

I may have made a mistake in saying that a Professional Drum corps league could be as big as the NFL (me being optimistic, and pie in the sky) , but it could be bigger/more marketable than it is now. I think such a league could follow the example set by Pro sports, and not re-invent the wheel. It could borrow some of the marketing people from Pro sports in order to have experienced people promoting the league. And if the people continue to think of Drum and Bugle corps as a "Niche" product, it will forever be a "Niche" product.

As for a fan base, it already exists. If it did not, there would be not such thing as Drum and Bugle corps/DCI/DCA. A professional league would only have to build upon what already is there.

Looking at the concept, it looks like all it would take would be creative, motivated people who would want to do it/ have vision, and good marketing campaigns. By taking a slow, careful growth tactic, who know where a Pro Drum and bugle corps League could be a hundred years from now.

To all the naysayers, I say look at the Delorean. The company fell apart in the eighties, and and almost disappeared....... BUT, a few people who believed in the car, and had vision, have revived the company, and now they are making new cars, developing a electric version, and have 5 offices around the world. (I know about them, because their factory is 10 minutes from me.)

have you been in the activity long? Im not trying to say what you think isnt worth listening to BUT I Have heard this so many times winter and summer programs. You do realise we are talking drum corps..the activity most people in the world have no interest in, doesnt bring in billions of revenue,even when paid ( like Blast ) its was pennies and not enough to live on at all.

I agree with you that dreams are great, sticking your neck out and taking a chance is the way visionaries do things but again its drum corps. We are very lucky the activity even exsists today since many other and much more visable activities dont exsist anymore.

[camel lips]

You are thinking about the current, "musician for hire", model. If a league was modeled after Professional sports, with competitions, than that is another, totally different, animal. Big bands never competed against each other in a organized competition, and didn't have the excitement factor of a possible winner at the end of the day.

Blue Devils......Ya Gotta Try

With any luck we might even be able to watch it on The Ocho on ESPN 8

[cdm]

have you been in the activity long? Im not trying to say what you think isnt worth listening to BUT I Have heard this so many times winter and summer programs. You do realise we are talking drum corps..the activity most people in the world have no interest in, doesnt bring in billions of revenue,even when paid ( like Blast ) its was pennies and not enough to live on at all.

I agree with you that dreams are great, sticking your neck out and taking a chance is the way visionaries do things but again its drum corps. We are very lucky the activity even exsists today since many other and much more visable activities dont exsist anymore.

I have been involved with drum corps, and marching entities, since 1978. However, I got out of trying to do day to day involvement with Drum and Bugle corps due to family issues, and running my IT/Computer business, back in 1996. Now that I have run a "real" company for a while, and have a little freedom, I am looking to get back into Drum and Bugle corps.

If the level of business acumen in Drum and Bugle corps is reflected by the replies to the OP, then no wonder the activity is having problems keeping Corps alive.

I also started a IT/Computer company with $5000(with lots of people telling me I do not look like the type of person who is successfull in Computers) , and now it generates 7 figures a year in gross revenue. Things die off when people give up.

Here are few numbers I ran:

Say a Professional corps started with 50 members. To pay them $35,000 per year each, a company would have to generate $1,750,000 in revenue. Add in another $1 million to cover touring costs for 12-15 weekends during the summer., and it would take $2,750,000 in order to pay the corps, and tour during the summer. The company could factor in cost of doing business, and shoot for a profit.

There are plenty of small businesses who generate that kind of revenue, and much more, per year. ( a friend of mine, who is in smart phone app development, generates more than that with 5 people.) If, as stated in my previous post, the members are employees of the company, and their job description stated that, if hired, they must march in the drum corps, then there would be no problem with it. Also, at $35,000 per year starting salary, it would be enough to get paid doing what one loves. ( I can promise everyone, that If there was a way for me to become a professional drum corps member and get paid to do it, after I aged out, i would have busted ### to be the best player I could, so I could get drafted. That was before I found out about Future Corps.)

It looks like too many here STILL think the way society wants them to think, when it comes to Marching music/Drum and Bugle Corps.(that it is a geeky, nerdy thing for people who are athletic) Well, if you look around, it is the geeky, nerdy people who control the world now. It is the geeky, nerdy people who think out of the box, and probably could make this concept happen.

Edited May 24, 2012 by cdm

[cdm]

To build on the idea of starting a music instrument manufacturing company/music store as a base for a pro Drum and Bugle corps, here are some examples of revenues in the music instrument manufacturing business:

1.Yamaha Music division 2011 revenues:

46,995,864.90

2.Steinway 2011 revenues as of June 30 2011:

$162 million, up 10% year to date

3.Fox 40 Pealess whistles; Fox 40 quality sport & safety products. Total Sales ($CDN): $3,700,000 Export Sales ($CDN): $1,000,000 to $4,999,999 Number of Employees: 35

Yes whistles are music instruments!!

[bill]

Technically (at some levels), this is a pro league compensation-wise....only difference is that the performers have to "pay to play"; while the non-performing individuals get the loot produced by the "pay to play" workers.

This is not a bash on the system; but in some cases performance members paying upwards to several thousands of dollars to eat peanut butter sandwiches and rehearse in 90 degree weather while a non-performing member of an organization or contracted personnel of an organization are making in the thousands of dollars, and in some cases in excess of +100-150,000.00 annually...that is just "outta whack".

There are many (non-performance individuals) who simply do this for the "love of the activity" or for a very nominal amount (they are the good guys).....and there are some that are just involved to milk the activity and are in it just for the cash. Why is this a niche' activity more-so than it was ever before....because it lost it's way....it lost it's heart.....it has lost it's soul.

Of course there are stellar, outstanding and pristine exceptions people-wise and organization-wise, there is no doubt about that; but for the most part.....it's a "show me the money" activity where the performing members are the pawns to pad the wallets of non-performing persons.

So, you see........this is a pro activity for some with compensation and perks; just not for the "worker bees".

[cdm]

Technically (at some levels), this is a pro league compensation-wise....only difference is that the performers have to "pay to play"; while the non-performing individuals get the loot produced by the "pay to play" workers.

This is not a bash on the system; but in some cases performance members paying upwards to several thousands of dollars to eat peanut butter sandwiches and rehearse in 90 degree weather while a non-performing member of an organization or contracted personnel of an organization are making in the thousands of dollars, and in some cases in excess of +100-150,000.00 annually...that is just "outta whack".

There are many (non-performance individuals) who simply do this for the "love of the activity" or for a very nominal amount (they are the good guys).....and there are some that are just involved to milk the activity and are in it just for the cash. Why is this a niche' activity more-so than it was ever before....because it lost it's way....it lost it's heart.....it has lost it's soul.

Of course there are stellar, outstanding and pristine exceptions people-wise and organization-wise, there is no doubt about that; but for the most part.....it's a "show me the money" activity where the performing members are the pawns to pad the wallets of non-performing persons.

So, you see........this is a pro activity for some with compensation and perks; just not for the "worker bees".

I totally understand that viewpoint. Thanks for your perspective, and insight.

[BigW]

This isn't the airplane, E-Mail, or any of the above you list. This isn;t some kind of ground-breaking scientific innovation like those at all. Absoulutely silly and inane to compare them to try and sell your pitch. Don't try and call me a nay-sayer, just a practical person. You go find the well-heeled person willing to invest the tens of millions it would take to pull this off and we'll see.

[BigW]

Technically (at some levels), this is a pro league compensation-wise....only difference is that the performers have to "pay to play"; while the non-performing individuals get the loot produced by the "pay to play" workers.

This is not a bash on the system; but in some cases performance members paying upwards to several thousands of dollars to eat peanut butter sandwiches and rehearse in 90 degree weather while a non-performing member of an organization or contracted personnel of an organization are making in the thousands of dollars, and in some cases in excess of +100-150,000.00 annually...that is just "outta whack".

There are many (non-performance individuals) who simply do this for the "love of the activity" or for a very nominal amount (they are the good guys).....and there are some that are just involved to milk the activity and are in it just for the cash. Why is this a niche' activity more-so than it was ever before....because it lost it's way....it lost it's heart.....it has lost it's soul.

Of course there are stellar, outstanding and pristine exceptions people-wise and organization-wise, there is no doubt about that; but for the most part.....it's a "show me the money" activity where the performing members are the pawns to pad the wallets of non-performing persons.

So, you see........this is a pro activity for some with compensation and perks; just not for the "worker bees".

Bang. Target, cease-fire. Well put.

[Jeff Ream]

You are thinking about the current, "musician for hire", model. If a league was modeled after Professional sports, with competitions, then that is another, totally different, animal. Big bands never competed against each other in a organized competition, and didn't have the excitement factor of a possible winner at the end of the day.

Blue Devils......Ya Gotta Try

Kenny Rogers...gotta know when to fold em.

Sorry, but this activity does NOT have the pull nationwide to draw in the number of fans to support it financially, not does it have the pull to attract the tv revenues and advertisers.

I love drum corps. It has been the one constant in my life since..well mom and dad met through it.

But it will NEVER have the support on a level like MLB, NFL, etc.

Why?

To far too many people, it's marching band. What happens at a college football game whenthe band goes on at halftime? at least half of the crowd gets up for food and drink. Even more at a pro game.

You could dumb down the programming to pop tunes and classic rock and you know what people would think? "oh it's a band...Hey...this one time, at band camp..."