soccerguy315 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) now as a horn myself for many years then guard ( by choice ) I can tell you 6 more horns doesnt do a thing sound wise or visually...6 more guard people by nature of color , size of equipment, impact, etc etc becomes much more valuable....especially if the guard is lacking some numbers Brasso is right in his assesment, now is that whats wrong with DCI I could ask why but wont but say thats subjective as well as debateable. well, since you can now mic a small ensemble in DCI, perhaps we will eventually see 12 horns, 110 guard, and 40 percussion. I mean, if guard is better visually and you don't sacrifice any volume, why not, right? IMO there is nothing you can do with 46 guard that you can't do with 40. Edited June 1, 2012 by soccerguy315 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDAMom Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 To answer the question, I genuinely believe that from what I've seen, it really just has to do with all of the statements made here- financial issues, injuries, personal issues of a garden variety (and yes, maybe because the staffing of a corps these days is generally higher than it was in the past). I know of SEVERAL kids who have filled these late season spots in the past many years who had a great, life-changing experience in the process (my son included). I believe drum corps is one of the few things left in our world today where things just happen for a reason, that don't always make sense, but they work out the way that they are meant to be- and sometimes those lessons are so very hard. But, then again, so is life, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) what some dont realise how guard affects everything in todays drum corps. I have had drum and horn people commenting on guard things like the musicality, has the guard maxed what is being played, have certain opportunities been missed visually to the product musically. Its a huge bleed over and can be frustrating. It goes to show you how visual our activity is. It doesnt matter how the numbers are, were or will be split , because of bleed over captions and because we are a visual activity it will always carry alot of weight. Conversely, we're also a musical activity too and maybe music should bleed over into the visual captions. Can't play something as well because of the visual, you shouldn't get as much credit. Does the brass max out what is being performed visually? Have certain opportunities been missed musically to match the product visually (chop-n-bop)? It really exposes how guard has bled over into our activity on the sheets this past decade. I love what guard contributes to the activity as a whole, but the sheets have been skewed towards the visual a little to far right now. I'd like to see a little more balance is all. Also, I fully appreciate how long it's taken the guard caption and presences to be fully acknowledge on the DCI sheets. It took forever, but now they've taken completely over. I'm not sure if it's the WGI influx of people or what. ...and I'm very much a visual guy, but to me, Drum corps is Music THEN motion ( at the highest levels)... Edited June 1, 2012 by jjeffeory 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Conversely, we're also a musical activity too and maybe music should bleed over into the visual captions. Can't play something as well because of the visual, you shouldn't get as much credit. Does the brass max out what is being performed visually? Have certain opportunities been missed musically to match the product visually (chop-n-bop)? It really exposes how guard has bled over into our activity on the sheets this past decade. I love what guard contributes to the activity as a whole, but the sheets have been skewed towards the visual a little to far right now. I'd like to see a little more balance is all. I'm a visual guy and I say A-Freakin'-MEN to that !!! Visual judges need to recognize simultaneous music responsibilities and they never, ever do. A lot of the times it's training (as in lack of) but a lot of the times it's just caption ego. They feel they're the most important aspect of the show and that's the way they judge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Conversely, we're also a musical activity too and maybe music should bleed over into the visual captions. Can't play something as well because of the visual, you shouldn't get as much credit. Does the brass max out what is being performed visually? Have certain opportunities been missed musically to match the product visually (chop-n-bop)? It really exposes how guard has bled over into our activity on the sheets this past decade. I love what guard contributes to the activity as a whole, but the sheets have been skewed towards the visual a little to far right now. I'd like to see a little more balance is all. Also, I fully appreciate how long it's taken the guard caption and presences to be fully acknowledge on the DCI sheets. It took forever, but now they've taken completely over. I'm not sure if it's the WGI influx of people or what. ...and I'm very much a visual guy, but to me, Drum corps is Music THEN motion ( at the highest levels)... well I personally have heard mucic tapes that was a hot bed of visual comments BUT also I would say what comes 1st the horse or the carriage...meaning..most would say ok heres the mucic what are you doing to it to bring it visually to life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 well I personally have heard mucic tapes that was a hot bed of visual comments BUT also I would say what comes 1st the horse or the carriage...meaning..most would say ok heres the mucic what are you doing to it to bring it visually to life You've got a good point. It's a marriage between music and visual! I'm going to say that we're a musical activity first, since it's a band. In WGI, it's a guard first. The music is there to support the guard. In marching band and drumcorps, the balance should be more towards the music side... I mean, you can have marching band without a guard. It's done at several major universities. If you go the other way around, it's called dance squad! I'd just like to see the balance tip a little more towards music for a while. I'm not saying cut guard or anything. I hope you don't think that! Guards deserve respect! In the context of this thread, though, guards also need more room to spin/dance/emote/move... Sometimes more is less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) You've got a good point. It's a marriage between music and visual! I'm going to say that we're a musical activity first, since it's a band. In WGI, it's a guard first. The music is there to support the guard. In marching band and drumcorps, the balance should be more towards the music side... I mean, you can have marching band without a guard. It's done at several major universities. If you go the other way around, it's called dance squad! I'd just like to see the balance tip a little more towards music for a while. I'm not saying cut guard or anything. I hope you don't think that! Guards deserve respect! In the context of this thread, though, guards also need more room to spin/dance/emote/move... Sometimes more is less. Oh i totally get what you are saying and agree Im just saying that visual is so inherent in every caption with every judge music or visual judge that no matter what the numbers are it always tips toward the visual...even if you look at subcaptions in music...theres visuals within their own caption. We have become more than just music on a field with a few moves.its a total visual thing. As you say you can have a marching band without a guard BUT if its just music your listening to then they can just sit and play like an orchestra..lol....opps I guess thats been done 2 and was a visual...lol but I do hear ya.......it does need to be a marriage Edited June 1, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeffeory Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Oh i totally get what you are saying and agree Im just saying that visual is so inherent in every caption with every judge music or visual judge that no matter what the numbers are it always tips toward the visual...even if you look at subcaptions in music...theres visuals within their own caption. We have become more than just music on a field with a few moves.its a total visual thing. As you say you can have a marching band without a guard BUT if its just music your listening to then they can just sit and play like an orchestra..lol....opps I guess thats been done 2 and was a visual...lol but I do hear ya.......it does need to be a marriage That's the thing though... We've been more than just music on the field with a few moves for a good long while. I mean, it's something like 25 years and counting now, but the caption bleed ( as I'll lovingly refer to it) has gotten really bad in the last decade. I totally get why too, because I believe that we've always gotten our visual powerhouses from the guard world. I mean Zingali, Brubaker, and Gains are the three that come to mind... So now it's also Chandler, and other guard greats giving input to the sheets. Their voice is going to be heard. You know, I don't really even know than many guard names, but I know that they really influence DCI right now and the designs have reflected their influence. As far as this thread, I've seen guards on the field that are just too big in marching band... I've seen 180 person bands with 45+ in the guard and it's just unwieldy for clarity of the guard and the winds. I can see something like that happening in drumcorps if we're not careful... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) That's the thing though... We've been more than just music on the field with a few moves for a good long while. I mean, it's something like 25 years and counting now, but the caption bleed ( as I'll lovingly refer to it) has gotten really bad in the last decade. I totally get why too, because I believe that we've always gotten our visual powerhouses from the guard world. I mean Zingali, Brubaker, and Gains are the three that come to mind... So now it's also Chandler, and other guard greats giving input to the sheets. Their voice is going to be heard. You know, I don't really even know than many guard names, but I know that they really influence DCI right now and the designs have reflected their influence. As far as this thread, I've seen guards on the field that are just too big in marching band... I've seen 180 person bands with 45+ in the guard and it's just unwieldy for clarity of the guard and the winds. I can see something like that happening in drumcorps if we're not careful... Oh you are totally right..many of BD shows are ala Chandlers past winter and some band programs, Even some music for them ( Mingus show ) was music done in his winter programs first, Shapero with Blue Stars and adam sage PR, Crown with their staff , Even Michael Cescerio all winter or visual people. Judges the same come from guard world, even some who have almost NEVER done much with a corps are judging visuals.some have never went though any judging or testing process in WGI ( call fast tracking ) and because they are a whos who go right to judging. I hate to say it about my own activity BUT several of the fixtures in the guard /visual world over the years have self promoted themselves just to keep themselves relevant an still do. The thing is those people have made themselves staples in the WGI arena and DCI grabs from that arena and so do corps. Music people , directors, band directors have all looked to many of these people because of the visual impact and importance within the activity. It's funny if you've been around long enough it's funny when you see those you have worked with, interacted with, judged with, have become such story tellers, especially about their own relevance..lol Now Im not saying these people arent talented, they are and have pushed the activity to the visual extravaganza it is, after all most are frustrated, dancers, directors, little Speilbergs, Bob Fosse's, Oh and dont forget the fashionestas like The Bob Makie's...Its funny when you look at a big name dancer in our activity who never set foot on a Broadway stage ( not that all great dancesr do )or who becomes a costume designer for a company with the most horrible taste and color blind..lol...sometimes Ive heard people say " hey, mail that designer a color wheel someone"..lol Its funny but true. Now this doesnt apply to all , but many holding their grip on the activity. Well, there's my take on it, although I defend drum corps of today, was a member BITD, love to see growth , change and not doing things merely because we always did it that way or that it was tradition, I have to raise an eyebrow every now and then and say WTF...lol wow this thread took another direction..sorry just trying to answer from one perspective.. Edited June 1, 2012 by GUARDLING 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I'm a visual guy and I say A-Freakin'-MEN to that !!! Visual judges need to recognize simultaneous music responsibilities and they never, ever do. A lot of the times it's training (as in lack of) but a lot of the times it's just caption ego. They feel they're the most important aspect of the show and that's the way they judge. I do tend to think that often music judges are more familiar with visual responsibilities than visual judges are familiar with music responsibilities a lot of the time. In the band circuit the band I work with competes in the Effect judge is an overall effect judge, not just music or just visual. It is sometimes cringe-worthy to hear a guard-experienced judge try and talk about the music, just because he or she is supposed to. It is nowhere near as bad the other way round most of the time; music judges can often make very good comments about the visual side of things, effect-wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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